JW, Cindy Sheehan is promoting her own personal agenda; she wants to ask why her son was sacrificed in the war in Iraq? That you would go so far as to say "The rest of the Sheehan Family supports the troops..." is about the most ignorant statement coming out. We can support the troops but not the war. Understand the difference? I believe not.
If you think this president and administration supports our troops, they are the very people cutting and reducing veteran's benefits. If that's your idea of their support, you're as blind and dumb as the rest of the Sheehan family that claims we don't support the troops.
Our son who has already served two tours of duty in Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War is thinking of going back into the armed services of our country. If you believe I won't be supporting our son, you're dumber than most.
Calling the Sheehan family and anyone else who has an opinion different from yours dumb is your answer to just about everything, isn't it, c.i.?
Feeling better?
And, for the record, the Sheehan family didn't assert anyone wasn't supporting the troops. They were pointing out that they are supporting them, our country and our president silently....with prayer and with respect.
cicerone imposter wrote:Our son who has already served two tours of duty in Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War is thinking of going back into the armed services of our country. If you believe I won't be supporting our son, you're dumber than most.
Is everybody that voted for Bush suffering from the Vietnam syndrome?
JWs quote, "She now appears to be promoting her own personal agenda and notoriety at the expense of her son's good name and reputation."
Who is better to speak for her son than the mother?
Her "son's good name and reputation" wasn't hurt one iota; if it has, it's because you righties said so (?).
JWs quote:
"The rest of the Sheehan Family supports the troops, our country, and our President, silently, with prayer and respect."
Other than the Sheehan Family supporting the troops and country, why support a president that can't even do a competent job that he started in Iraq? Bushco wants to bring "democracy" to Iraq, but he didn't do his homework or listened to the experts on how to handle the war after major combat operations are over.
A democracy under Islam is no democracy. Study the implications why this is so.
There are still huge hurdles to cross before any "constitution" will be approved.
Some international political experts are saying that civil war in Iraq is inevitable.
Has terrorism been reduced in the world? Ask the Brits, Spanish, Indonesians, Philippines, and Iraqis if this is so...
Ask the women in Iraq how they prefer the situation today over Saddam's presidency?
Ask the Arabs in the Middle East if they support what's happening in Iraq?
Osama is probably thanking Allah and Bush for helping with the recruitment of new terrorists to al Qaeda.
The Bush's war on terrorism? You're kidding, right? Our borders are open, and over 90 percent of the container cargos coming to the US are not inspected.
Feel safer? Glad you do.
First:
cicerone imposter wrote:you're as blind and dumb as the rest of the Sheehan family that claims we don't support the troops.
Now:
cicerone imposter wrote:Other than the Sheehan Family supporting the troops and country,
So, now you're retracting your statement of calling the Sheehan Family dumb?
<I'm still waiting for your "poll" showing that most Americans are against her "right to protest".>
cicerone imposter wrote:Who is better to speak for her son than the mother?
The father might be on even footing, huh?
Ticomaya wrote:cicerone imposter wrote:Who is better to speak for her son than the mother?
The father might be on even footing, huh?
No, like it or not, we (of the West) are the spawn of the Earth Mother Cult. The father is never on even footing with the mother.
To be fair, generally speaking, a mother's love overwhelms that of a fathers, but I am speaking of archetypes. As far as this particular situation goes, the mother is no more authoritative than the father.
There was that mother in Texas who drowned her kids in the bath tub. There was that mother in South Carolina who drowned her kids in a lake. There was that mother in Michigan who kept her daughter in a closet for 9 years (at least she didn't drown her!). Etc etc etc.
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:Ticomaya wrote:cicerone imposter wrote:Who is better to speak for her son than the mother?
The father might be on even footing, huh?
No, like it or not, we (of the West) are the spawn of the Earth Mother Cult. The father is never on even footing with the mother.
To be fair, generally speaking, a mother's love overwhelms that of a fathers, but I am speaking of archetypes. As far as this particular situation goes, the mother is no more authoritative than the father.
There was that mother in Texas who drowned her kids in the bath tub. There was that mother in South Carolina who drowned her kids in a lake. There was that mother in Michigan who kept her daughter in a closet for 9 years (at least she didn't drown her!). Etc etc etc.
Yes, Finn, that indeed is the prejudice ... but I don't like speaking generally on this subject. Because "generally speaking" often a "mother's love overwhelms that of a father's," as you said that does not mean such is the case with Casey Sheehan, or any other child for that matter. Any given mother does not hold any greater knowledge or dominion over the feelings, wishes, and desires of their issue than the father.
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:Ticomaya wrote:Finn d'Abuzz wrote:Ticomaya wrote:cicerone imposter wrote:Who is better to speak for her son than the mother?
The father might be on even footing, huh?
No, like it or not, we (of the West) are the spawn of the Earth Mother Cult. The father is never on even footing with the mother.
To be fair, generally speaking, a mother's love overwhelms that of a fathers, but I am speaking of archetypes. As far as this particular situation goes, the mother is no more authoritative than the father.
There was that mother in Texas who drowned her kids in the bath tub. There was that mother in South Carolina who drowned her kids in a lake. There was that mother in Michigan who kept her daughter in a closet for 9 years (at least she didn't drown her!). Etc etc etc.
Yes, Finn, that indeed is the prejudice ... but I don't like speaking generally on this subject. Because "generally speaking" often a "mother's love overwhelms that of a father's," as you said that does not mean such is the case with Casey Sheehan, or any other child for that matter. Any given mother does not hold any greater knowledge or dominion over the feelings, wishes, and desires of their issue than the father.
Indeed.
Irony.
Earth Mother Cult? Specific or unique to 'western' culture? Are there some other cultural traditions with which either of you would care to draw out this contrast demonstrating how fathers are valued differently elsewhere in some sense or aspect relevant to this issue?
I don't recommend that you begin googling into the question because you aren't going to find much that will back this thesis. But you will find a lot which does not. Sociology, primatology...it doesn't really matter where you look, it's mommies that do the nurturant thing almost everywhere.
I don't mean to pick a fight here for no reason but Finn has a falsehood in tow and that never helps in clarifying matters.
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:There was that mother in Texas who drowned her kids in the bath tub. There was that mother in South Carolina who drowned her kids in a lake. There was that mother in Michigan who kept her daughter in a closet for 9 years (at least she didn't drown her!).
So this is the category we are supposed to see Sheehan in, then ...?
blatham wrote:Earth Mother Cult? Specific or unique to 'western' culture? Are there some other cultural traditions with which either of you would care to draw out this contrast demonstrating how fathers are valued differently elsewhere in some sense or aspect relevant to this issue?
I don't recommend that you begin googling into the question because you aren't going to find much that will back this thesis. But you will find a lot which does not. Sociology, primatology...it doesn't really matter where you look, it's mommies that do the nurturant thing almost everywhere.
I don't mean to pick a fight here for no reason but Finn has a falsehood in tow and that never helps in clarifying matters.
Mommies don't do the sole or even the primary nurturing thing in
this household. I suppose your point is that this prejudice is not limited to this hemisphere, but your generalization does as much good as taking a poll on the subject -- who gives a flip? The point I've made remains valid, regardless.
nimh wrote:Finn d'Abuzz wrote:There was that mother in Texas who drowned her kids in the bath tub. There was that mother in South Carolina who drowned her kids in a lake. There was that mother in Michigan who kept her daughter in a closet for 9 years (at least she didn't drown her!).
So this is the category we are supposed to see Sheehan in, then ...?
Not unless you want to. I don't think anyone else is suggesting you do so.
Ticomaya wrote:blatham wrote:Earth Mother Cult? Specific or unique to 'western' culture? Are there some other cultural traditions with which either of you would care to draw out this contrast demonstrating how fathers are valued differently elsewhere in some sense or aspect relevant to this issue?
I don't recommend that you begin googling into the question because you aren't going to find much that will back this thesis. But you will find a lot which does not. Sociology, primatology...it doesn't really matter where you look, it's mommies that do the nurturant thing almost everywhere.
I don't mean to pick a fight here for no reason but Finn has a falsehood in tow and that never helps in clarifying matters.
Mommies don't do the sole or even the primary nurturing thing in
this household. I suppose your point is that this prejudice is not limited to this hemisphere, but your generalization does as much good as taking a poll on the subject -- who gives a flip? The point I've made remains valid, regardless.
The claim that nurturing of young in homo sapiens is mainly a maternal activity can't be properly described as "prejudice" any moreso than a claim that homo sapien males are larger than homo sapien females would be an instance of "prejudice". These are general truths even if not so in all instances. You and/or finn might have some bug up your bums on how this issue may be conceived in the legal arena (family law, custody battles, etc) but that's a rather different set of questions.
But I suspect that you both are merely unhappy that "motherhood" has a particular value in American culture which makes this lady's protest more damaging to your party's standing...essentially, the PR hurt suffered by the Bush administration. Why not just be honest about that?
cicerone imposter wrote:
"Who is better to speak for her son than the mother?"
When I wrote this, I didn't mean it was the single purview of the mother, but specifically to the Sheehan's case.
If the father spoke in behalf of his son, I would have said "who is better to speak for his son than the father?" in a similar situation. It depends on the issue.
The father has made clear his views and those implied by his son's actions. They are diametrically opposed to Spotlight Sheehan's.
However, Ms Sheehan has all the rights - legally and morally - to do what she is doing. Her husband is equally right, both legally and morally, to present his opinion. Nutt'n wrong with that! It's the character assassination of Ms Sheehan that is despicable.
