The "When will Donald Trump leave office in disgrace?" Pool

@ossobucotemp,

ossobucotemp wrote:

I semi remember that coup though I was around twelve, and I remember people and news magazines mentioning it off and on, not in a happy way.

Do you remember that 99% of the coup originated from the same clerics who rule Iran today, 1% of the coup originated from the UK (who had a legitimate grievance about Iran stealing their oil), and the role of the US in the coup was trivial? (Although we clearly did go along with it once it was clear that the coup would be happening with or without us.)

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I wonder why Iran dosent just forgive us for the crap the CIA did to them. After all tRump has forgiven Putin for hacking the election that got him elected.

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@RABEL222,

Israel was more than just a subtle part of what the CIA did to them. They ran the SAVAK torture squads, and murdered an unknown number of so-called dissidents.

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@ossobucotemp,

It was very dirty and Britain was every bit as culpable. It was all about oil, and some things never change, which is why we still sell state of the art weaponry to the most autocratic regime in the region, Saudi Arabia.

1 Reply

@RABEL222,

That cuts both ways, why won't Americans forgive Iran for what they did to American diplomats during the revolution?

Then there's this.

Quote:

Iran Air Flight 655 was an Iran Air passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai. On 3 July 1988, the aircraft operating on this route was shot down by the United States Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes under the command of William C. Rogers III. The incident took place in Iranian airspace, over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, and on the flight's usual flight path. The aircraft, an Airbus A300 B2-203, was destroyed by SM-2MR surface-to-air missiles fired from Vincennes. All 290 people on board died.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

Imagine the fuss if Iran had shot down an American passenger plane.

You know full well that America is a country full of wide ranging opinion and Iran is no different. There are plenty of Americans and Iranians who are quite willing to put the past behind them and move on, then there's the hardliners who see compromise as defeat. Then there's all the oil interests who are backing Trump, cheap Iranian oil cuts deep into their profit margin.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

It was very dirty and Britain was every bit as culpable. It was all about oil,

The UK had a legitimate grievance. The democratically-elected Iranian government was stealing their oil.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

That cuts both ways, why won't Americans forgive Iran for what they did to American diplomats during the revolution?

Because it was a horrible crime, and there has been no repentance on Iran's part.

izzythepush wrote:

Then there's this.

Quote:
Iran Air Flight 655 was an Iran Air passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai. On 3 July 1988, the aircraft operating on this route was shot down by the United States Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes under the command of William C. Rogers III. The incident took place in Iranian airspace, over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, and on the flight's usual flight path. The aircraft, an Airbus A300 B2-203, was destroyed by SM-2MR surface-to-air missiles fired from Vincennes. All 290 people on board died.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

Shot down because it appeared to be a warplane attacking a US warship, amid tensions that were due to Iran actually attacking a US warship.

izzythepush wrote:

Imagine the fuss if Iran had shot down an American passenger plane.

The degree of malice/negligence/remorse matters greatly.

If it were clearly an honest accident, and if Iran expressed genuine remorse, we would not treat it nearly as harshly as we would if it were a malicious act with zero remorse.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

http://images.amcnetworks.com/amc.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/better-call-saul-saul-goodman-esq-800x600.jpg

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@izzythepush,

I've never seen the show (or Breaking Bad for that matter).

I think I get the channel they air(ed) on, but just never bothered.

Some wonderful person remastered the original episodes of The X-Files into true high definition widescreen, and an otherwise-insignificant network grabbed the rerun rights, so now we in the US are being treated to classic reruns of The X-Files in high definition. It is absolutely exquisite. I *am* watching that.

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@giujohn,

giujohn wrote:

Lash wrote:

On days like yesterday, I wonder if I should have picked a day sooner for the successful end to his impeachment trial; March 1, 2018 seems too easy.

The players are assembling. Looks like McCain and Graham are positioning themselves as leaders from inside the party against Trump. Other voices are speaking out. The General activist fury is emboldening the loyal opposition.

Somewhere, I think a team of lawyers is already frenetically poring over the Constitution and Trump's holdings and actions, laying the groundwork for his impeachment.

Well lash, you took the bet so I'll be sorry to see you go...

Trying to keep up where the date is.

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I think Trump has to be impeached. The big negative, Pence will present the Republican agenda to be implemented in a way that's legal and will be enthusiastically voted in by congress. Lose-lose.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

I think Trump has to be impeached. The big negative, Pence will present the Republican agenda to be implemented in a way that's legal and will be enthusiastically voted in by congress. Lose-lose.

Unless Pence is caught on the Russia train.

Btw, I think the extent of Trump's guilt is, at worst, ignorance about what is ok and what is wildly inappropriate to repeat. Since he has the power to make ultimate decisions on declassification, he's really being railroaded right now. However, even though what he's done is not exactly illegal, I strongly believe removal by impeachment trial is the best thing for the country. We are in effect nullifying the election, which is wrong, but right now, everything in this country is wrong.

My opinion anyway.

1 Reply

@Lash,

And the obstruction of justice charges?

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I think Trump has to be impeached. The big negative, Pence will present the Republican agenda to be implemented in a way that's legal and will be enthusiastically voted in by congress. Lose-lose.

Unless Pence is caught on the Russia train.

Which leaves us Paul Ryan. No improvement.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

I'm stumped. It was surreal living thru Watergate, it was disturbing watching Nixon leaving the Whitehouse for the final time. But not because I was a Nixon supporter, it was just hard to wrap my head around the recklessness and arrogance that forced him out of office. Why anyone would risk such humiliation is still something I can't comprehend. I know, I know it's because they figure they won't get caught but................ I'm not looking forward to how this moves forward. It's going to be painful for everybody. Everybody loses.

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@glitterbag,

We already have lost, however this plays out.

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@edgarblythe,

You're right.

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@glitterbag,

Speaking from a selfish outsider's point of view I feel happier about a Pence administration, he's less likely to start a war.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

I think Trump has to be impeached.

You have two big problems then. First, Trump hasn't done anything impeachable.

And second, the Democrats placed Bill Clinton above the law when he in fact did do something impeachable. Even if the Democrats really did have plausible evidence against Trump, no one would care.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

And the obstruction of justice charges?

There is no plausible case that Trump committed obstruction of justice.

But even if there was a plausible case against Trump, Bill Clinton committed obstruction of justice and the Democrats said that was just fine. No one would care about obstruction charges against a Republican president now even if the charges were plausible.

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