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The continued reference to Mary Cheney by the Dems

 
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 05:11 pm
I can't figure out who will decide if a demographic has been alienated--

I do think links of him saying one thing--and then later--something conflicting should be easy enough to prove. But, I will put here--it doesn't have to be word for word--it just has to mean the same thing.

I feel more assured that one is straightforward enough. $100.

Was it 3 or 4 months on that one? Where was the discussion of it?
The Howard Dean thread...?
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 05:22 pm
Back to Lynne Cheney:

Quote:
"I don't remember the plot."

--Lynne Cheney to New York Times reporter Melinda Henneberger on being asked to comment on the 1981 novel, "Sisters".

Quote:
"Let us go away together, away from the anger and imperatives of men. There will be only the two of us, and we shall linger through long afternoons of sweet retirement. In the evenings I shall read to you while you work your cross-stitch in the firelight. And then we shall go to bed, our bed, my dearest girl."

--Love letter from one woman character to another in "Sisters", as quoted by Henneberger.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 05:38 pm
Lash wrote:
She (and obviously many others, considering Kerry's numbers went down after he mentioned Cheney's sexual orientation) was angry because he used her daughter, and bashed lesbianism, for political points.


Yeahyouwrong about that, too.

Kerry -- and John Edwards; remember he mentioned her also -- knew that discussing Mary Cheney was a no-lose proposition: it highlighted the hypocrisy of the Bush-Cheney position while simultaneously alerting evangelicals to the fact that the Cheneys "have an actual gay person in their household whom they apparently aren't trying to convert or cure," as Margaret Carlson put it.

Of all the reasons people did not vote for John Kerry, this one was incredibly low on the list -- if it made the list at all.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 05:47 pm
You are free to have that opinion.

The press at the time, and polls, showed it hurt Kerry. He should have skewered Bush with his performance--instead he lost numbers because of that remark--and his wooden persona. His own team gasped when he said it. It was contrived to diss a lesbo, and that fact was unmistakable.

With Edwards--his insertion of her lesbo-ness was much more natural, because it had been brought up--so he didn't look so Machiavellian.

Kerry did.

But, I don't expect to change your opinion.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 05:50 pm
If we could find a judge both of us trusted, I'd go for the demographic. He's already done Southerners once. Wouldn't take long to do it again.

He's a loose cannon. He'll piss somebody off in a few months.

Conservative Democrats...hunters....Black Christians... Its a done deal.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 06:01 pm
Lash wrote:
You are free to have that opinion.

The press at the time, and polls, showed it hurt Kerry. He should have skewered Bush with his performance--instead he lost numbers because of that remark--and his wooden persona. His own team gasped when he said it. It was contrived to diss a lesbo, and that fact was unmistakable.

With Edwards--his insertion of her lesbo-ness was much more natural, because it had been brought up--so he didn't look so Machiavellian.

Kerry did.

But, I don't expect to change your opinion.


Saying "We're all God's children, Bob, and I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was. She's being who she was born as. I think if you talk to anybody, it's not a choice" is "dissing a lesbo" how?

You're going to have to point out the "unmistakable fact", because I don't see it.

You're fast becoming the victim of your own hyperbole -- again.

And "lesbo-ness"?

Laughing You're killing me here...
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 06:05 pm
Lash wrote:
I do think links of him saying one thing--and then later--something conflicting should be easy enough to prove. But, I will put here--it doesn't have to be word for word--it just has to mean the same thing.

I feel more assured that one is straightforward enough. $100.


So we're on for this one, then?

Found that thread yet? Or you want me to?
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 06:10 pm
Lash wrote:
If we could find a judge both of us trusted, I'd go for the demographic. He's already done Southerners once. Wouldn't take long to do it again.

He's a loose cannon. He'll piss somebody off in a few months.

Conservative Democrats...hunters....Black Christians... Its a done deal.


It wasn't southerners he pissed off with his comment about Confederate flags on pickup trucks. But why quibble? Cool

A 'judge' isn't the issue; it's the "entire demographic" part that's troublesome (for you).

And that's the last hint you get. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 06:14 pm
I found it--I didn't look for the time I said--but it's there when we want to see--on the Dean thread. We're on for that one. I'm going to think about this a bit. If you're handing out money, I want another bet.
--------
PDiddie--

I know you understand the backhanded compliment--and the "get it out there, even if you do it with a compliment" modus operandi. It in the same vein as an atty blurting out a piece of evidence she knows is inadmissible. The judge tells the jury not to consider it---rriiiiiiiigght. He knew what he was doing--and so do you. Be a man and admit it.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 06:27 pm
Lash wrote:
PDid--

Lynne Cheney didn't say any such thing.


You're right. This is what she did say:

Quote:
"This is not a good man. What a cheap and tawdry political trick."


What? Where?

Elizabeth Edwards nailed it when she said this, in response:

Quote:
"She's overreacted to this and treated it as if it's shameful to have this discussion. I think that's a very sad state of affairs. … I think that it indicates a certain degree of shame with respect to her daughter's sexual preferences. … It makes me really sad that that's Lynne's response."


And the real hypocrisy showed up in the Vice President's words when he said:

Quote:
"You saw a man who will do and say anything to get elected, and I am not just speaking as a father here, although I am a pretty angry father."


...when just days earlier he thanked John Edwards, during the vice-presidential debate, for the...

Quote:
"kind words he said about my family and our daughter. I appreciate that very much."


...in response to these comments by Edwards, who expressed:

Quote:
"respect for the fact that they're willing to talk about the fact that they have a gay daughter, the fact that they embrace her. It's a wonderful thing."


But none of all that really made any difference either way.

Except for the exposure, once again, of GOP duplicitousness. At least you guys are consistent.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2005 06:41 pm
One comment came naturally. The Dem handlers backstage didn't gasp--no harm, no foul--though I bet my ass Edwards was told to work it in. Kudos for him. He came close to sounding sincere. Trial lawyers learn that after a while.

Kerry didn't fare so well.

Mary was used by Kerry to score political points against her father. I'm a little surpried you're still trying to act like you don't know it.

How'd you like Dean's first gaffe against the Black Caucus...? I'm a little miffed I had to wait a whole day for his onslaught of frigging lunatic insults to start.

The blacks should have him killed in about three weeks at the rate he's going...

Of course, I'll probably have to wait for him to go off on another demographic--because the blacks would let him burn a cross at their prayer breakfast before they'd take issue with the DNC. And, that is sad.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2005 07:34 pm
Laughing Don't sugar-coat it, baby; give to em straight! Laughing
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 08:23 am
As you all know, the FCC has just seriously upped the fines for 'indecency', though the term remains about as foggy and legally indistinct as it did when Hollywood became a target for moralizers early last century.

One effect is to put media outlets into the position where they will or might decide not to broadcast a wide range of content which could gain these large fines. Saving Private Ryan representing content which could conceivably be fined. Today, PBS announced they were issuing two separate versions of a documentary on soldiers in Iraq, because of the words used by the soldiers.

Why the new level of fines? Certainly, some believe them necessary. Or one can point to the increasing power and influence of the conservative right. Americans are, it seems, up in arms and outraged. Here's some data on that outrage...

Quote:
Activists Dominate Content Complaints
December 06, 2004
By Todd Shields

In an appearance before Congress in February, when the controversy over Janet Jackson’s Super Bowl moment was at its height, Federal Communications Commission chairman Michael Powell laid some startling statistics on U.S. senators.

The number of indecency complaints had soared dramatically to more than 240,000 in the previous year, Powell said. The figure was up from roughly 14,000 in 2002, and from fewer than 350 in each of the two previous years. There was, Powell said, "a dramatic rise in public concern and outrage about what is being broadcast into their homes."


What Powell did not revealâ€"apparently because he was unawareâ€"was the source of the complaints. According to a new FCC estimate obtained by Mediaweek, nearly all indecency complaints in 2003 (99.8 percent)were filed by the Parents Television Council, an activist group.

This year, the trend has continued, and perhaps intensified.

Through early October, 99.9 percent of indecency complaintsâ€"aside from those concerning the Janet Jackson “wardrobe malfunction” during the Super Bowl halftime show broadcast on CBSâ€" were brought by the PTC, according to the FCC analysis dated Oct. 1. (The agency last week estimated it had received 1,068,767 complaints about broadcast indecency so far this year; the Super Bowl broadcast accounted for over 540,000, according to commissioners’ statements.)

The prominent role played by the PTC has raised concerns among critics of the FCC’s crackdown on indecency. “It means that really a tiny minority with a very focused political agenda is trying to censor American television and radio,” said Jonathan Rintels, president and executive director of the Center for Creative Voices in Media, an artists’ advocacy group.


http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/search/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000731871
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 05:25 pm
Just a teeny update.

Democrat Blacks--Lash owes you an apology. I was wrong.
----------

...and I'm proud of them. They are demanding an apology from Dean. As they should.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 05:33 pm
Well they are demanding an apology, but not his head. I suspect the GOP chairman would not get off so lightly.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 05:41 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Well they are demanding an apology, but not his head. I suspect the GOP chairman would not get off so lightly.

Perhaps that's because the GOP has a long and detailed history of having their heads in a noose.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 05:47 pm
Lash wrote:
One comment came naturally. The Dem handlers backstage didn't gasp--no harm, no foul--though I bet my ass Edwards was told to work it in. Kudos for him. He came close to sounding sincere. Trial lawyers learn that after a while.

Kerry didn't fare so well.

Mary was used by Kerry to score political points against her father. I'm a little surpried you're still trying to act like you don't know it.

How'd you like Dean's first gaffe against the Black Caucus...? I'm a little miffed I had to wait a whole day for his onslaught of frigging lunatic insults to start.

The blacks should have him killed in about three weeks at the rate he's going...

Of course, I'll probably have to wait for him to go off on another demographic--because the blacks would let him burn a cross at their prayer breakfast before they'd take issue with the DNC. And, that is sad.


Quote:
Just a teeny update.

Democrat Blacks--Lash owes you an apology. I was wrong.
----------

...and I'm proud of them. They are demanding an apology from Dean. As they should.


Well as long as "the blacks" have stalwarts like you to serve as their conscience, I'm sure they'll rise to the mark. Shocked
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 05:59 pm
I hope so. They had been disappointing me of late.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 06:02 pm
To some in some circumstances, it seems the definition of 'gaffe', is when one takes heat for telling the truth. If the hotel staff was obviously disproportionately black (as it must have been), and if I was there, I would've laughed my ass off at Dean's comment just as some of the Black DNC delegates in the room did.

Thanks, but the later "demand for an apology" notwithstanding, I'd like not to be told by any white people what I should and should not find offensive.

Paternalism and patronization aren't the exclusive domain of any party or demographic.

Some blacks feel one way, some another. None of them need whites to tell them what to feel.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 06:09 pm
Yeah. I know you feel that way.

But, I am not buying into the double standard upheld by statements like yours. I can comment about my opinions about whites and white issues--but hands off blacks and black issues.....? Nah.

That's a form of racism to me. I speak to all issues without first adjusting my opinions due to the skin color of the people involved. You are right, in my estimation, about paternalism and patronization not being exclusive to any party. I agree. Not exclusive to any race, either.

I found the statement offensive--it had the demeaning assumption that a uneducated wait staff would be overwhelmingly black. It was insulting. You don't have to be black to be insulted by racist comments.
0 Replies
 
 

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