The continued reference to Mary Cheney by the Dems

I thought soz' article handled it pretty well bill, but i am still amazed there is 54 pages to this thread...go figure...

Not one of those 54 pages contains a post by the Bush Campaign. We did it ourselves.

Perhaps a last-gasp (pardon the pun) effort to excuse Kerry's evident poor judgement and poor taste?

IMHO

Poor taste versus virulent activist homophobia.

You guys certainly are focused on the important stuff here.

That's strange. I've read most of this thread and found no homophobia, virulent, activist, or any other kind.

Take off those glasses and trim the hair away from your eyes and look again.

Take notice of the thread's title and see if you can figure out why it keeps going back there.

And btw, your "two wrongs must make a right" argument is as weak now as it was earlier... but still better than that denial you were suffering with. :wink:


Care to quote us some of that homophobia PDiddie?

Bill,

you sure are active in this thread. Is this issue important to you in some way?

Cycloptichorn

Where is the "virulent activist homophobia"?? Do you believe that opposing gay marriage constitutes virulent activist homophobia? I can think of several reasons on which to oppose it, which do not involve systematic dislike or fear of homosexuals. Accepting the equal value of all individuals does not itself constitute a sufficient argument for gay marriage - though evidently the Supreme Court of Mass. thinks so.

Your reasons are all cheap covers for... virulent activist homophobia.

I would like you to explain to me, in detail, how your or anyone else's marriage is tarnished or hurt in any way by gays marrying. Explicit detail, because while there are many who are against gay marriage, I have noticed a real dearth of explanations as to how it will actually, really harm others....

My bet is that other than saying 'marriage is a sacred institution blah blah blah' you won't be able to come up with a single way it hurts people who are already married, or going to marry, who are straight.

Cycloptichorn

55 pages and we're finally gettin to the nitty gritty.

That's not nitty gritty Panz. It's diversion. By the way; you do know John Kerry AND Bob Graham's positions on gay marriage, don't you? If opposing it constitutes "virulent activist homophobia", you sure do support some closet bigots, don't you? (Check your premise. :wink:)

Gosh , I didn't even know I had a premise Bill. Thanks for the premise suggestion.

You cannot answer my question:

Specifically, in what ways, does Gay marriage harm pre-existing or planned straight marriages?

Quit diverting and answer the questions, those who are against gay marriage.... you should realize that your failure to be able to do so is indicative of a weak argument...

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn

Excuse me Cyclo,

I know Kerry's position but maybe you don't Bill.

Gay Rights

Cheney's daughter, a lesbian, would say gay is not a choice. (Oct 2004)
The Constitution calls for same-sex partnership rights. (Oct 2004)
Personally believes marriage is between a man & a woman. (May 2004)
Defense of Marriage Act is fundamentally ugly. (Apr 2004)
Opposes Massachusetts DOMA since there's a federal DOMA. (Feb 2004)
For partnership rights and civil union. (Nov 2003)
Provide gays and lesbians with full coverage of civil rights. (Jun 1996)

Nothin there I can't get behind

And if you'll notice, Graham's opposition to same sex marriages was a vote in 1996. I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that he'd vote against an amendment to ban the same today...oops, here it is.

Republicans who voted to block the amendment were Susan M. Collins (Maine), Olympia J. Snowe (Maine), John E. Sununu (N.H.), Lincoln D. Chafee (R-I.), Ben Nighthorse Campbell (Colo.) and John McCain (Ariz.). Democrats who voted to bring up the amendment were Zell Miller (Ga.), Ben Nelson (Neb.) and Robert C. Byrd (W.Va.).

I'm not against gay marriage, Cyclop, so how could I answer that? You'd have known that already if you read what others wrote before challenging them. Take another look at the title of the thread, and then accuse me of diverting again.

Panz, which part of that makes you think I don't know his position?

Hey! I just found out something about our man Foley.

Outed Senate candidate refuses to say if he is gay

by Anthony Glassman

Tallahassee, Fla.--Rep. Mark Foley, a Republican candidate for the Senate seat being vacated by Democrat Bob Graham, is refusing to discuss his sexual orientation after a newspaper outed him.

Foley was outed in the New Times, a Palm Beach alternative weekly. Bob Norman, author of "Out with the Truth," an article in the May 8 issue, quoted Tracy Thorne, a friend of Foley, who claimed that Foley and his boyfriend had attended functions with Thorne's family.

Thorne gained fame in 1992 when, as a Navy lieutenant, he came out on ABC's Nightline during the national debate that produced "don't ask, don't tell."

Norman argued that Foley should come out of the closet and be truthful with his supporters.

The writer mentioned an earlier article discussing Foley's voting record on gay issues. Although he is a conservative Republican, Foley has consistently cast pro-gay votes, with the exception of one for the anti-gay Defense of Marriage Act in 1996.

Foley, however, still refuses to say if he is gay or not.

"This is the kind of question that I do think is highly inappropriate," he said in a conference call with Florida political reporters. "My mother and father raised me and the rest of my family to believe there are certain things we shouldn't discuss in public."

Foley initiated the conference call to go on the offensive after he found that a mainstream Florida daily was considering a story on the outing. He accused Democratic activists of spreading rumors that he is gay in an attempt to smear him and damage his candidacy, which Republican leaders hope will shore up their thin majority in the Senate.

Foley and other Republican leaders argue that he should be judged on his record, which he is trying to paint as hard-line conservative by bringing up his opposition to gun control and support for stricter regulation of immigration.

His record, however, is what has some far-right elements worried.

Ken Connor, the executive director of the anti-gay Family Research Council told the Miami Herald that Foley's voting record "represents the radical homosexual agenda, and I'm not sure that's the path our party needs to take."

Sentiments like Connor's have raised suspicions that the push to have Foley come out of the closet may actually have been orchestrated by far-right Republicans in Florida. Some party strategists worry that Foley is too moderate to defeat former Rep. Bill McCollum in a primary decided by party hard-liners. McCollum, however, lost his bid for the Senate in 2000, and Foley is believed to stand a better chance of victory overall.

Members of the Republican leadership, from House majority leader Tom DeLay to Florida governor Jeb Bush, expressed their support for Foley, calling attempts to out him "underhanded rumormongering."

I had no idea.

I was originally adressing GeorgeOb1. But anyone who is against Gay marriage will do.

I think that you and I have made our differences clear on this thread, Bill, so I don't want to snipe back and forth... I would really like someone to attempt to answer my simple question, however...

I'm going to keep bringing this up every time someone changes the subject until it is answered.

Cycloptichorn

Sorry Cyclo, carry on

I'm outta here...

No need to apologize, Panzade - your comments were insightful and relevant to the debate.

Cycloptichorn