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monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 02:13 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Quote:
...so much easier for you to believe than the contents of actual DNC emails.

You mean the e-mails that were hacked by Russian intelligence and given to wikileaks? I don't see how the content of the DNC e-mails negates or disproves Russian meddling. And remember, we're discussing meddling not wholesale ballot manipulation.


You keep saying this.

Lash has provided her evidence as laid out by The Nation. Maybe you have provided yours, in the same specificity, in which case I missed it.

The fact that Intelligence agencies have suggested or stated that the Russians hacked the emails is sketchy evidence even if you are one of the rare liberals who has always believed everything US Intelligence officials have said.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 02:14 pm
@maporsche,
A pack of two?

Don't be ridiculous. You can count.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  5  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 02:19 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

I'm very sure she is a woman, but that's the sort of insult Linda Sarsour (another self-declared feminist) used against Ayaan Hirsi Ali when she tweeted



Having met Lash, there's no way I could disagree.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 02:22 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:



Having met Lash, there's no way I could disagree.


I never had the privilege but based on the way she shifted 180 degrees from right to left a year or so ago, I knew she had to be a woman. Very Happy
hightor
 
  6  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 02:23 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
The current centrist "Democratic Establishment" grew out of the party's need for:

1. success at the ballot box
2. money (lots of it)

And the two are very closely connected. Advanced liberalism (they like to call themselves "progressives" these days) doesn't tend to attract either no. 1 or no. 2. Those who are sick of Clintonism or the "Third Way" have few choices on the national stage. But most of us can agree that Mr. Trump's reign so far has been appalling if not disastrous. The trouble is, too much attention is payed to his gaffes and buffoonery while his appointees are busy deregulating and rule-changing behind the scenes.
Lash
 
  1  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 02:26 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Very funny.

Actually, there are a lot of liberal views I've held from very early here, but dyed in the wool partisans elect to gloss over those and use Bush support as their sole criteria--which is their prerogative, but a flawed assessment of a 180 degree recalculation.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 02:30 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

Very funny.

Actually, there are a lot of liberal views I've held from very early here, but dyed in the wool partisans elect to gloss over those and use Bush support as their sole criteria--which is their prerogative, but a flawed assessment of a 180 degree recalculation.


I'm glad you thought it was funny, because it was a joke.
hightor
 
  5  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 02:36 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Lash has provided her evidence as laid out by The Nation.

It hasn't proven to be particularly effective in halting the investigation or changing the prevailing sentiment in the intelligence community.
Quote:
Maybe you have provided yours, in the same specificity, in which case I missed it.

I found the Assange article I linked to earlier quite convincing and the fact that Russia has been doing similar things in Europe. At least that's what I've read — I'm not an investigator. I've also seen articles which question the charges made in The Nation but until the investigation is complete it wouldn't be that constructive to post them here.

Example:
Quote:
The crux of the whole thing — the opening argument — rests on the fact that, according to “metadata,” the data was transferred at about 22 megabytes per second, which Lawrence and Forensicator claim is much too fast to have been undertaken over an internet connection. (Most connection speeds are measured at megabits per second, not megabytes; 22 megabytes per second is 176 megabits per second.) Most households don’t get internet speeds that high, but enterprise operations, like the DNC — or, uh, the FSB — would have access to a higher but certainly not unattainable speed like that.

Brian Feldman, NYMag reprinted here

Thing is, while I don't consider myself a big fan of the US Intelligence community I do find them more trustworthy than NewsMax, Fox News, and Kim DotCom.
Lash
 
  1  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 02:37 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Pretty effective. I thumbed it up.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  7  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 03:02 pm
Sofia/Lash Goth/Lash has been after the Clintons for more than a decade, at this site. Here's an example from more than fourteen years ago: What is perhaps Sofia's (Lash's) earliest Clinton attack thread at this site. In this thread from 2004, a rather odd occurrence, in which Sofia posts, and then posts again as Lash. It's Clinton attack once again. In a thread from earlier in 2004, Sofia sneers at Clinton.

I can go on like this for quite a while. Suffice it to say that Sofia/Lash has been after the Clintons for a very long time. This is why I have never believed that she was a sincere Sanders supporter. All she is doing now, in a thread about Trump, is attempting to make the conversation about Clinton rather than Trump. It's just what Blickers was talking about. Long, long ago, when Lash was still Sofia, we had a brief exchange about her political leanings. She was and always has been a conservative. I don't believe the leopard has changed her spots, and I don't believe she ever had any agenda when claiming to be a Sanders supporter other than bashing Clinton. When Finny makes his completely unconvincing and smarmy remarks about a Sanders supporter, referring to Lash, I don't buy that either. I think he knows full well that that was phony from the word go.

So let's not enable the sleazy conservatives. This thread is about President Plump, it's not about Clinton.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -3  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 03:07 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

The current centrist "Democratic Establishment" grew out of the party's need for:

1. success at the ballot box
2. money (lots of it)

And the two are very closely connected. Advanced liberalism (they like to call themselves "progressives" these days) doesn't tend to attract either no. 1 or no. 2. Those who are sick of Clintonism or the "Third Way" have few choices on the national stage. But most of us can agree that Mr. Trump's reign so far has been appalling if not disastrous. The trouble is, too much attention is payed to his gaffes and buffoonery while his appointees are busy deregulating and rule-changing behind the scenes.


The centrist Democrat Party that Bill Clinton helped engineer was a response a far-left party that couldn't win so you are right about #1 in that context and #2 always follows #1. The Obama Democrat Party was not centrist, and HRC hoped to win on his back.

The current Democrat Party is in upheaval which is why Lash's comments are pertinent, but it's clear that HRC didn't want to oversee a centrist party when she shut down the advice of her husband who was 1,000 times the politician she could ever hope to be. I don't think she has any really favored ideology. If her sycophants had agreed with Bill she would have too. Above and beyond any platform, she wanted to hold the most powerful office in the world.

It's in upheaval not because of a difference in politics it's because the Clintonistas still hold sway and they don't want to give up power or money.

Missing from your list is #3: The Clinton's desire for wealth and power.

I hope you guys work it out in favor of ideology.
Setanta
 
  5  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 03:23 pm
Russia Today has been tweeting almost non-stop about Clinton over the last few days. Finny and Sofia/Lash are just following the party line. Don't enable to sleazy new narrative.

This thread is about President Plump, not Clinton.
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  4  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 03:26 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
...there are a lot of liberal views I've held since early here...dyed into the wool partisans elect to gloss over those and use Bush support as the sole criteria...


For a part it seems to be true around here; but, there are several who are open minded. The same holds true for how our dyed in the wool conservatives tend to react towards a mostly conservative airing liberal views.

I've dealt with at times as I too have some liberal standpoints along with my long held conservative takes; but due to my 'sin' of twice voting for Junior, I'm held in the glare of contemptuous sneers by some.

Some of it is how a person presents themselves in their chosen words. Even though I supported George W. Bush and have long detested both Clinton's, people didn't come at me with pitchforks full of blazing straw, when, I came out in support of Bernie Sanders. Much of it comes down to presentation.
Lash
 
  -1  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 03:38 pm
@Sturgis,
I know you have a point about presentation, Sturgis.

I'm not complaining about my popularity, but I think claims that I'm a Russian spy, or secret, closeted Republican operative are ridiculously goofy.

I do respect your restraint.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  3  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 03:42 pm
@Setanta,
This quote is great from one of your links.

Lash/Sofia wrote:
You know, I do think Hill does have more to her than dirty bits. I think she is probably a courageous woman, who has pushed like mad to get to a position of power--and I do think she has a vision for this country that means alot to her. I just think her vision is a lot like Socialism, so I disagree with her vision.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  6  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 04:29 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Lash has provided her evidence as laid out by The Nation.

That's not an accurate description of what happened. Lash linked to a piece written by a Nation writer who made arguments/conclusions based on a report from "VIPS". As the Nation editorial staff subsequently wrote:
Quote:
...Subsequently, Nation editors themselves raised questions about the editorial process that preceded the publication of the article. The article was indeed fact-checked to ensure that Patrick Lawrence, a regular Nation contributor, accurately reported the VIPS analysis and conclusions, which he did. As part of the editing process, however, we should have made certain that several of the article’s conclusions were presented as possibilities, not as certainties. And given the technical complexity of the material, we would have benefited from bringing on an independent expert to conduct a rigorous review of the VIPS technical claims.

We have obtained such a review in the last week from Nathan Freitas of the Guardian Project. He has evaluated both the VIPS memo and Lawrence’s article. Freitas lays out several scenarios in which the DNC could have been hacked from the outside, although he does not rule out a leak. Freitas concludes that all parties “must exercise much greater care in separating out statements backed by available digital metadata from thoughtful insights and educated guesses.” His findings are published here.

We have also learned since publication, from longtime VIPS member Thomas Drake, that there is a dispute among VIPS members themselves about the July 24 memo. This is not the first time a VIPS report has been internally disputed, but it is the first time one has been released over the substantive objections of several VIPS members. With that in mind, we asked Drake and those VIPS members who agree with him to present their dissenting view. We also asked VIPS members who stand by their report to respond...
More Here
I'll add that it is worthwhile to take a look at other Nation pieces by Lawrence.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 04:42 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
The centrist Democrat Party that Bill Clinton helped engineer...

(Yes, I was aware of that — I could have stated it more explicitly but I thought everyone knew about (Bill) Clinton's "triangular" strategy. Gore, Kerry, Obama, and HRC, while very different as politicians, didn't diverge all that much in their general centrist approach to governance, although only Obama was ultimately elected and expected to lead. After the Democrats lost congress he was pretty much left to continue the triangle shtick and "centrism" became obsolete.)
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 04:51 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Thing is, while I don't consider myself a big fan of the US Intelligence community I do find them more trustworthy than NewsMax, Fox News, and Kim DotCom.


Which one of those outlets was caught lying to Congress?
Setanta
 
  4  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 05:05 pm
When it comes to lying in public, the intelligence community are pikers compared to President Plump.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  4  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 05:13 pm
Well, sadly I had to look up Linda Sarsour...... and I suppose the Empress of all womanhood will be pissed I didn't know who she is. . So now I'm in trouble with the HMMC and the Clique.
 

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