192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
glitterbag
 
  4  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 05:17 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
When did the Intell community lie to Congress.....Are you thinking of Ollie North? Yeah, Ollie is a scum bag and had no problem deceiving the Intell Community....but I think he was pardoned. Good for Ol Ollie.
blatham
 
  6  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 05:28 pm
On the anti-Hillary thing.

First, there's a long-running pattern here. Right wing media operate to further GOP electoral goals, validate conservative orthodoxy and to push their audience further to the right. A key means of achieving these ends is (and has been since the rise of talk radio and publishing enterprises like Regnery) a constant stream of stories/viewpoints which have the goal of demonizing key Dem figures. Truth and accuracy play little part in these operations. Limbaugh and Coulter are absolutely typical examples. It is a propaganda enterprise highly incentivized by the huge profits that accrue. As I've noted before, Limbaugh makes about 70 million a year. Beck outpaced that by 10 million a few years back. Hannity pulls in around 40 million a year. Coulter is a multi-millionaire. Regnery was making so much money that Simon and Schuster started up their own conservative imprint (Threshold Editions) and put Mary Matalin in charge. Etc, etc. Fox is Murdoch's most profitable single enterprise.

One characteristic of the output from these people and their product is isolation of key Dem individuals followed by an apparently unending avalanche of attack stories on the individual. Unending? They are still going after Jimmy Carter 37 years after he was out of office. Consider the campaigns against Al Gore (still going on) and John Kerry (nothing good about him anywhere in RW media). Nancy Pelosi. Harry Reid. Anybody who rises up in the Dem firmament will get the same treatment.

They act in this way in part because of the money to be made but also because it is politically effective. The stories/viewpoints are exceedingly simple-minded and with almost no nuance whatsoever. Nuance and second-guessing are wishy-washy and something only spineless RINOs fall to. Orthodoxy is hammered in and woe to any Republican who is not on board.
For a solid study on all this, you might want to order up the book here
Hillary provided something of a perfect target in the modern era. Not only had there been decades of typical rightwing media focus on Bill and on her (cocaine deals, financial criminality, murders, sex, lesbianism) which had primed the rightwing audience for what was to come, the very real threat of her (a Clinton and a female) winning the election (acknowledged by the smarter GOP strategists) served to unleash a smear campaign with few precedents I know of. And then, for their own purposes, the Russians climbed on board.

Writers in the press and people on boards like this wonder why Trump and rightwing media still focus constant attacks on Hillary. That's not a tough one. It is all about simplicity (in the negative sense of simple-mindedness) and the continual stoking of prior passions and cultivated hatreds. The Hillary-she-devil story is very easy for the rightwing audience. They don't have to think about it.

And of course, pointing to the Devil in our midst is a very effective way for authoritarians to push potentially critical attention away from themselves.

revelette1
 
  3  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 05:30 pm
@glitterbag,
There was that time what was his name, the former head of NSA, lied about spying. I think the bigger reason is why would the intelligence pull such a big hoax just to get Hillary elected, I mean it would have had to have been very elaborate and detailed as much information as we have been getting thus far. It is a stupid theory to think the intelligence agencies has been involved in a big hoax on the American people with thousands of data to back it up just to say Russia interfered in our elections.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 05:50 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:

When did the Intell community lie to Congress.....Are you thinking of Ollie North? Yeah, Ollie is a scum bag and had no problem deceiving the Intell Community....but I think he was pardoned. Good for Ol Ollie.

Good luck getting a clear, straight answer to this.
blatham
 
  5  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 05:51 pm
Quote:
The White House says President Donald Trump has chosen as the nation’s top mine safety official the former CEO of a coal company that repeatedly clashed with federal regulators when the Obama administration tried to boost industry-wide enforcement following the deadliest U.S. mine disaster in four decades.
TPM

Well, of course. While all the noise and bullshit that emanates from this insane man in the WH is dominating media coverage, the big money and corporate interests are now broadly reducing citizens' means of curtailing what they do - through disempowering and fracturing government - for the sake of profits and to redesign American society in a highly authoritarian mode.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 06:01 pm
Quote:
White Supremacists Joked About Using Cars to Run Over Opponents Before Charlottesville
Leaked chat room conversations reveal expectations of violence — along with detailed planning and intelligence gathering on left-wing adversaries.
Propublica
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 06:08 pm
Here's a couple of fine quotes from the chap who designed the Confederate flag, William Tappan Thompson.
Quote:
As a people, we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause.[5]… Such a flag…would soon take rank among the proudest ensigns of the nations, and be hailed by the civilized world as THE WHITE MAN'S FLAG [sic].[6]

As a national emblem, it is significant of our higher cause, the cause of a superior race, and a higher civilization contending against ignorance, infidelity, and barbarism. Another merit in the new flag is, that it bears no resemblance to the now infamous banner of the Yankee vandals.[7][9]
wikipedia

Now isn't that just special.
(h/t Greg Palast)
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  2  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 06:10 pm
@glitterbag,
I had such a blissful day with my darling grandchild today.

"Gramma, gramma," he cries when I walk out of sight. Irritating to his parents, I'm sure. But the most wonderful word I've ever heard. Thanks for reminding me!
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 06:11 pm
Searingly stupid and completely dishonest.
Quote:
Donald J. Trump‏Verified account
@realDonaldTrump
The United States is considering, in addition to other options, stopping all trade with any country doing business with North Korea.
9:14 AM - 3 Sep 2017
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  3  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 06:14 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
The Hillary-she-devil story is very easy for the rightwing audience. They don't have to think about it.

And of course, pointing to the Devil in our midst is a very effective way for authoritarians to push potentially critical attention away from themselves.


this is precisely why I have no interest in being gentle toward fascists in real life or on social media - I am going to continue to point them out when I see them. And to deride them.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 06:15 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:

When did the Intell community lie to Congress.....Are you thinking of Ollie North? Yeah, Ollie is a scum bag and had no problem deceiving the Intell Community....but I think he was pardoned. Good for Ol Ollie.


When James Clapper lied in response to a question Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore asked:

Quote:
Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions, or hundreds of millions of Americans?"


His response:

Quote:
No sir. Not wittingly


As we learned from the Snowden leaks, Clapper was not telling the truth.

After dancing around for a while Clapper finally admitted in a letter to Dianne Feinstein:

Quote:
My response was clearly erroneous


And it wasn't erroneous because he didn't know what the truthful answer would have been.

Admittedly, he was in a tough spot due to an irresponsible question in an open hearing, by a grandstanding Senator, but Clapper's answer was a lie.

He took it upon himself to judge whether the secrecy of an NSA program was more important than answering a Senator's question truthfully.

So is Clapper a scumbag?

If Snowden had never leaked we wouldn't know about the program and Clapper's lie would have held up. How many other times do you suppose an Intelligence Agency official lied to Congress and didn't get caught?

I would have thought Frank Church was one of your heroes or was he a scumbag too?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 06:16 pm
@blatham,
And the same sort of pattern doesn't exist on the Left? Rolling Eyes
blatham
 
  3  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 06:18 pm
Trump's EPA is pushing back hard against reporting on toxins emanating from petroleum/chemical operations and super fund sites. Keep an eye on this. I expect that to become a pattern. Derogation of reporters/media a key aspect.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 06:19 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
And the same sort of pattern doesn't exist on the Left?

You are a human. Charlie Manson is a human.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 06:21 pm
@snood,
Clear and straight enough for you snood?

You folks need to be more up on your current events or is it selective amnesia?

When it was revealed that Clapper had lied, the criticism came far more from the Left, but of course, that was when the Left had no reason to praise and admire the CIA and NSA.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  3  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 06:26 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

glitterbag wrote:

When did the Intell community lie to Congress.....Are you thinking of Ollie North? Yeah, Ollie is a scum bag and had no problem deceiving the Intell Community....but I think he was pardoned. Good for Ol Ollie.


When James Clapper lied in response to a question Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore asked:

Quote:
Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions, or hundreds of millions of Americans?"


His response:

Quote:
No sir. Not wittingly


As we learned from the Snowden leaks, Clapper was not telling the truth.

After dancing around for a while Clapper finally admitted in a letter to Dianne Feinstein:

Quote:
My response was clearly erroneous


And it wasn't erroneous because he didn't know what the truthful answer would have been.

Admittedly, he was in a tough spot due to an irresponsible question in an open hearing, by a grandstanding Senator, but Clapper's answer was a lie.

He took it upon himself to judge whether the secrecy of an NSA program was more important than answering a Senator's question truthfully.

So is Clapper a scumbag?

If Snowden had never leaked we wouldn't know about the program and Clapper's lie would have held up. How many other times do you suppose an Intelligence Agency official lied to Congress and didn't get caught?

I would have thought Frank Church was one of your heroes or was he a scumbag too?


I don't recall, but if the program that he lied about was classified, then wouldn't he be forced to lie about it?

Not saying it's right, but more agreeing with you that it was probably an irresponsible question.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 06:27 pm
@blatham,
Well, I'm glad you seem to be drawing a distinction between me and Manson, but you're obviously deluded about there being such a stark distinction between the Left and the Right. The motivations for both are the same: power, wealth and prestige, and HRC is the poster child of the Left in that regard.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 06:39 pm
@maporsche,
It was a very irresponsible question, and Clapper was in a tough spot, but he, unquestionably, lied.

A CIA program that involved the funding of El Salvadoran Death Squads, would probably have been classified too, but would you have considered a Senator's questions about it irresponsible or righteous?

My point is that lies and schemes are the stock in trade of these people. Some we (collectively and individually), are OK with and some we are not, but we shouldn't make the mistake of believing that what they tell us is the guaranteed truth simply because it's what we want to hear.

I'm confident that the great majority of our Intel agents, officers, and workers are upstanding, patriotic and lawful folks, but there are bad apples in every barrel and in politics, they tend to rise to the top.

0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 06:44 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
The motivations for both are the same: power, wealth and prestige

That's what motivates nurses to become nurses. And teachers to take up their profession. And local city council men and women. And PTA members. And it's what motivated Lincoln. And Martin Luther King. They didn't really care about making the world a better place.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sun 3 Sep, 2017 06:50 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Quote:
The motivations for both are the same: power, wealth and prestige

That's what motivates nurses to become nurses. And teachers to take up their profession. And local city council men and women. And PTA members. And it's what motivated Lincoln. And Martin Luther King. They didn't really care about making the world a better place.


What?

So all left-wing activists, pundits, politicians, and crony-capitalists are the same as nurses, PTA members, MLK and a Republican president?

Is that really what you are saying? If so you are far more drunk on the Kool-Ade than I ever imagined you to be. Not accusing you of this but that's the sort of ideological idealism that had the American Left making excuses for Stalin in the 50's.
 

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