29
   

The new Democratic party. What will it look like?

 
 
reasoning logic
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 06:30 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
And I gotta say, I am quite pleased thus far. If Trump doesn't blow us up, this repudiation of the status quo is forcing changes that are LONG overdue.


I am still very concerned that the wolves in sheep clothing "Hitlary's cluster B friends" will still penetrate the party.

Do you think that the DNC now knows that the Bernie or bust movement was a serious movement? If not maybe they understand what bust means by now Rolling Eyes
RABEL222
 
  5  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 06:42 pm
@Lash,
I lay it at the feet of the corrupt republican party that you claimed to have deserted for the democratic party which you say are now crooked. Look up the meaning of hypocrisy.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 06:46 pm
@reasoning logic,
Message: received!
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 08:31 pm
Awesome brother Cornel has a word in The Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/17/american-neoliberalism-cornel-west-2016-election?CMP=fb_gu
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  4  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 09:17 pm
@Lash,
Afraid not. Well, an occasional job through a university he sponsors. But no longer for his organisation.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 09:21 pm
@nimh,
Glad to know.
nimh
 
  4  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 09:23 pm
@Lash,
Shouldn't be. I have mostly kind memories of it. Worked with great people, worked on good causes. I'm proud of the work our program did.
Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 09:30 pm
@nimh,
I assume you and I have different opinions about Soros. I thought you were someone else.
nimh
 
  4  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 09:59 pm
@Lash,
Yeah, actually seeing the work his organisation does in action, and the impact it has on the ground, for years with my own eyes probably allows for a different opinion than what you're basing yours on.

Our program helped to advocate for better educational opportunities for Roma, who are often segregated into inferior schools and classes on the basis of racist prejudice.

It helped highlight discrimination and unequal opportunities for European Muslims, and identify constructive measures to help, at a time when a resurgent far right incites hatred against them.

It helped advocate for the rights and freedoms of journalists, at a time when an increasing number of authoritarian governments are restricting media freedom.

I have seen colleagues in other programs work tirelessly and selflessly on an immense range of causes. They ranged from the protection of dissidents in post-Soviet dictatorships, to efforts to combat HIV and TB in developing countries, to criminal reform in the United States that would lessen the disproportionate victimization of African-Americans.

I do not have a favourable opinion about everything I saw back then. As in any organisation of a corporate size, there are arrogant managers, snobbish employees, useless bureaucratic procedures, etc. I also do not wholly align ideologically with Soros's ideas: he's a liberal, I'm more on the left.

But the comparison with his foes is a pretty straightforward one. Because I'm keenly aware, of course, that George Soros has made many enemies over the past 25 years or so. They make for quite the gallery of rogues - including, for random example:

* Putin's Russia
* Post-Soviet dictators from Central Asia to Belarus
* Authoritarian, nationalist governments like Orban's here, in Hungary
* Extreme-right parties and organisations across Europe
* Communist parties and organisations in Europe and elsewhere
* Corrupt petty tyrants like Zimbabwe's Robert Mugabe
* Republicans and conservatives in the United States

And, of course, a legion of anti-semites and conspiracy theorists worldwide.

I'm happy to have spent some time on the other side.
reasoning logic
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2016 04:16 am
@nimh,
Quote:
Yeah, actually seeing the work his organisation does in action, and the impact it has on the ground, for years with my own eyes probably allows for a different opinion than what you're basing yours on.


I Have not come to a solid opinion on George Soros yet but so far I seem to have negative thoughts about him.

It seems that all people will do good at times to make themselves feel good or look good.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2016 05:58 am
@nimh,
You can add to your categories of people who don't like Soros:

people who resent billionaires who pay for influence in their governments

Anger at people like Soros and the pay for play situation he takes part in is one reason Hillary Clinton wasn't elected.

#wikileaks

nimh
 
  5  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2016 04:06 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
people who resent billionaires who pay for influence in their governments


Okay. I mean, sure. Personally, I'm not much one for unilateral disarmament, so as long as there are Kochs, Friesses etc in the US, and dark Putin funding streams in Europe, I'm glad Soros is weighing in on the other side. But sure, in a better world, etc.

Lash wrote:
Anger at people like Soros and the pay for play situation he takes part in


Well that's pretty vague. Is there a specific pay for play you feel Soros engaged in with the government that you resent? Or is this more of a generic "people like Soros" thing?

Lash wrote:
is one reason Hillary Clinton wasn't elected.


An inchoate sense that there are wealthy elites that can bend an ear among the powerful that remains out of reach for them? Sure. Soros, specifically? I doubt that your typical blue-collar, small-town, Dem-turned-Trump voter cares about George Soros or knows who he even is. He's a boogeyman for the partisans and conservatives who spend their time reading Breitbart or RedState, but they weren't going to vote Hillary anyway. That's not a right-wing thing, either: it's the same on the other side. Lots of stuff liberal partisans who read political blogs get really worked up about that the average voter doesn't care about or even heard of. I'm sure most people still haven't heard of Bannon, and wouldn't greatly care if they did.

Quote:
#wikileaks


Putin adviser Sergei Markov, the day after the US elections: "Maybe we helped a bit with WikiLeaks". But sure, keep believing that Wikileaks represents the righteous grassroots unmasking of shadowy powers pulling strings ... rather than a manifestation of those.

Finally - I mean, yeah. Like I said, I was a nobody, but at OSF committed people were working tirelessly on issues ranging from LGBT people facing murderous persecution in Uganda to the oppression of ethnic minorities in Birma to the suppression of dissent in Central Asia to the blissfully less extreme but nevertheless important issues we were working on in Europe that I listed above. You'll forgive me if looking at Soros exclusively through the lense of US politics seems a little parochial.

The funny thing, in a way, is that Soros became as much of a hate figure as he is to some in America even though he doesn't actually make much of a habit of getting involved directly in big election campaigns - unlike the right-wing billionaires who shovel millions into the campaigns of Republican bigwigs. His thing is generally more focused on helping fund civil society organisations and grassroots groups. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the only races Soros got involved with in this year's entire election season were a handful of downballot races to oust a couple of incumbent, local DAs whose jurisdictions were particularly notorious for their disproportionate sentencing and jailing of black people.

I think it all goes back to 2004, when Soros deviated from his usual practices (in which funding typically gets disbursed through structured, usually long-term processes, with open Calls for Applications etc, and goes to NGOs rather than political actors) and weighed in directly on he US presidential race. He spent millions trying to help defeat president Bush, to the deep anger of George Bush supporters and defenders like you... and of course it was all in vain. Not his smartest move.
reasoning logic
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2016 05:05 pm
@nimh,
Quote:
Okay. I mean, sure. Personally, I'm not much one for unilateral disarmament, so as long as there are Kochs, Friesses etc in the US, and dark Putin funding streams in Europe, I'm glad Soros is weighing in on the other side. But sure, in a better world, etc.


We all get reality wrong. Maybe Hillary, Soros, Kochs, Friesses etc think they too are decent people and are trying to make a better world as they see it. I plan to start a thread maybe titled "An open letter to" all of these people.

I plan to be respectful to all of these people in hope that other people may consider what I am sharing.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2016 07:00 pm
What is an uncle Tom? I know of the book "Uncle Tom's cabin" which was the number one selling novel at one time.

0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2016 07:24 pm
As I reflect back on the old Democrat Party all I can do is shake my head in unbelief.

0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2016 08:33 pm
I did not watch that video, but I resent someone calling Jesse Jackson such a name.
reasoning logic
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2016 08:44 pm
@edgarblythe,
Do you Like Jesse? I listen to most all people and what they try to share. I find that even the people I think are disrespectful have something to share that can be true at times.

I will say that the man who has a bone to pick with him is a black man himself.

He may be a republican but I do not know because he is not completely sharing his party ideology.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2016 08:21 am
Speaking of optimism, I confess I have none at all for the new Democrat party. I mean I see no way to exert any influence in Washington at all, not any in the coming years since Reid employed to nuclear option we now have to live with being powerless. At the time, I didn't think a republican would win but, anyway, we are now powerless to affect anything for years to come. I know republicans can now with reason say "we told you so" regarding the nuclear option, but that really doesn't matter. Reid did leave the supreme court appointments out of it, but I suspect the republicans will add that in. Why not?

President Trump’s Cabinet picks are likely to be easily confirmed. That’s because of Senate Democrats
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2016 10:19 am
@revelette2,
I am less pessimistic than you. There will likely be a period of depressed introspection followed by the rise of new forces and figures. Right now it is only the Bernie forces and the residue of the old establishment (Like Nancy Pelosi) left standing, but new stuff will indeed emerge.

It's true the Democrats will have to reap a little of the bad fruit they sowed in the Senate, but the experience may make some of them wiser the next time around.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2016 11:35 am
@georgeob1,
You remind me of some smug annoying parent who tries to parent kids other than their own. Been around some of them.
 

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