Will You Watch the Debate?

True, Linkat.

Thanks so much for your reactions, really appreciate them. I'm of course a Kerry supporter and so thrilled on that level that he seemed to communicate to you so well, but also just am very glad to have a window into your thinking, either way.

Remember about 6 months that he wasn't saying that all the troops would be out then... but that 6 months is when he could start bringing people home.

Appreciate your views Linkat...you seem to be making an earnest effort to find your choice

Speaking of Kerry Linkat said


Bush may have the so called experience of presiding and even creating the present morass. But he will not put that experience to use since he is convinced he did nothing wrong and made no mistakes. If you are satisfied with the path we are on and want four more years of the same or worse. Than vote for Bush. If not the decision should be an easy one.

I think liberals are pinning too many hopes on the debates. The masses mistrust good Yaley debaters...they much prefer to be led by the class clown...incoherent but spectacularly stubborn.
Much more dismaying is the fact that Robert Byrd had to stand and complain to Congress about the RNC's mass mailing of a propaganda sheet with the picture of a bible stamped: banned. If I were WVan or Arkansaian I'd definitely be insulted and vote for Kerry.

I agree that the debates will probably have a limited effect, panzade. The race is close enough, though, that even a limited effect -- 3 percentage points, say -- could make a big difference.

We'll see!

I kind of agree p, people have short memories and might even sympathize with Bush's poor performance. Still, I do think a good debate performance can help Kerry gain on Bush. I don't think the election will turn on it, but it helps. Especially when the Bush camp is so good at controlling the message when Bush and Kerry are not themselves visible.

That's a great point, FreeDuck. It's probably what I love most about the debates, as separate from anything that Kerry or Bush do, specifically -- allowing the focus to go to them and what they actually do and don't say, rather than all those infernal filters.

Every time Bush said or whined it was a hard job, I expected he would as Scarlett O'Hara said in gone with the wind say. I will think about it tomorrow.

Panzade, I am not pinning any hopes on the debates. I still expect the Republican spin machine to steamroll over Kerry for the next month. Bush will win. It's sad, but true. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy watching some intelligent coherent speech while it lasts.

At the time I did question whether we may have been hasty, but realized if he did have WMDs and it seemed the President was confident of that, then he could be an immediate danger. But hearing all the reports of our troops being killed and hurt really can change your heart. My question is - is it worth the deaths especially when the U.N. and inspectors were keeping an eye on Sadaam?

You make a good point au-that was another concern of mine with President Bush is that he does not seem to want to admit he made an error in judgement. If he stated that and said, here are the things we have done that have had a positive outcome - freedom for the poor Iraqi people being tortured under Sadaam, capturing Sadaam, etc and this is what we are going to do to help the people and get our people out of Iraq. Ironically I just attending a seminar with one of our clients about improving client service. The client stated the important of admitting in error and then coming to a solution so the error does not occur again. The logic being if you cannot admit an error, how are they going to fix it and improve?

I guess it is difficult for me because I do not have 100% confidence in Kerry and how he can handle things.

-sigh-

One last miscellaneous observation:

Kerry's thing is that he's a strong finisher. I wish he wasn't in this position in the first place, but I really liked what I saw. He seemed downright happy to finally be in that position, like a Michael Jordan kind of thing. It's the final seconds of the championship game, gimme that ball. I'm hoping that larger aspect will translate, beyond the debates themselves.

I agree with all of you. I felt a new respect for Kerry. I'm such a pessimist. Liberals are notorious for that at the finish line of an election

Linkat, welcome to the world of the undecided

Linkat wrote

There are no sure things in life and especially when speaking of politicians promises, it's all a crap shoot. However, we know the path we are on and what we can expect from Bush. Do you want to continue down that road or make a change with the promise of being better?

FYI - there is a poll on Fox News re who won the debate: http://www.foxnews.com/ About 53,000 votes so far, and the results are very close. Bush leads in that poll but not by a lot.

CNN has over 544,000 votes and the tally is clearly in favor of Kerry - 71% to 21% (the remainder said it was a tie).

ABC News reports 3 polls say Kerry won: http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20041001_648.html

NPR doesn't seem to take a position one way or the other: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4055740

The Seattle Times says 2 single women (former undecideds) think Bush won the debate: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002051082_undecideds01m.html

Another great line that Kerry used, from the ABC news poll article:

"Repeating a line he has used countless times to show his opponent is inconsistent, Bush tweaked Kerry for saying he voted for an $87 billion spending bill for Iraq and Afghanistan before he voted against it.

Kerry shot back, "Well, you know, when I talked bout the $87 billion, I made a mistake in how I talk about the war. But the president made a mistake in invading Iraq. Which is worse?"

I just posted lots of details on the various post-debate polls on the "bookie" thread from here onwards.

These are the toplines on who won:

ABC:
Kerry 45%
Bush 36%

CBS:
Kerry 43%
Bush 28%

Gallup/CNN/USA Today:
Kerry 53%
Bush 37%

ARG:
Kerry 51%
Bush 41%

LOL! Edited post above ... I'd written "post-election polls" rather than "post-debate polls" ... in your dreams, nimh ... ;-)

Russian TV stations censored all criticism of Putin when they broadcast the debate ...

Kerry danced around that one pretty good, totally avoiding the question of why he didn't support the troops.

How he 'talked about the war'? Give me a break.

Oh, interesting!

Yeah, when I was watching that I was like, guys, you know Putin will get wind of this, right?

Still it was nice to see the criticism.