No Justice, No Peace

Or, she's just trying to avoid the heat

The NAACP has responded to Missouri's recent legislation on discrimination by issuing a travel warning for the state. The advisory calls for travelers to utilize "extreme caution" in the state due to the likelihood of "discrimination and harassment," CBS News reported Tuesday. Rod Chapel Jr., president of the state's NAACP chapter, has described Republican Governor Eric Greitens' recent legislation as "the Jim Crow bill," a reference to the segregation tactics of the South.

The state's legislation will make lawsuits alleging discrimination much more difficult to win, as victims will now have to present proof that discrimination was the main reason for a defendant's actions. Previously, suits required proof that bias was a contributing factor. The bill also bars employees from suing any individual for discrimination, meaning only the company itself can be named in a suit.

http://www.complex.com/life/2017/08/naacp-travel-warning-missouri

I lived in Missouri long enough to see the tension between races. This new law can't bode well.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-40813413

Betcha Welsh voted for Trump. Actually, there's no betting about it. It's to be expected.

Trump claims he wants to bring us all together. Don't you believe it!

As an American, I'm glad I wasn't born black. The worst is yet to come.

I get what you're saying but being born black in America is hardly a fate worse than death. I imagine that there are a great many African-Americans who are very happy they were born black in America and do not curse fate for not dropping them on this rock in a white body.

In general, African-Americans face more race based challenges than their white countrymen, but a great many have been very successful and live contented lives. At the same time there are a great many white Americans who live lives of misery, for all sorts of reasons.

So-called "white privilege" doesn't ensure success in life, and assuming that it is the reason behind the achievements of all successful white people, demeans those folks and ignores all sorts of human characteristics that ultimately lead to success, regardless of race.

What do you imagine "the worst" that is yet to come looks like?

African-Americans, although not free of the challenges of racism in our society, are not bombarded with them on a daily basis and their historical arc has been largely positive. Do you imagine that this progress (albeit slower than it should be) is about to reverse itself?

As usual, your response is thoughtful and intelligent; and I generally agree with it. At least you don't make the incredibly insulting statement that some people (such as Pat Robertson) have made; namely, that black Americans should be grateful that their ancestors were brought to this country as slaves. I mean, Jim Crow was just a walk in the park (sarcasm).

One of the reasons why I've been so preoccupied with racism in all of its many forms is because I grew up under Jim Crow and I had decent parents (of the WW2 generation) who combated the racist attitudes I encountered away from home by the way they raised me. I also was all but an eyewitness of a particularly vicious instance of discrimination. I could go into all the sad details, but let me just say that I've never heard of a white combat veteran or any other white person who was denied treatment for a snakebite because of his race.

There definitely is an anti-civil rights trend in politics today. Witness the Republican-supported "Jim Crow bill" in Missouri and the evisceration of the Voting Rights Act by the Republican majority of the Supreme Court.

When I was young, I naively believed that social progress was inevitable. I did know there were instances of reversals in history, but I thought the U.S. was different.

My faith in the inevitability of social progress began to fade when I first heard about Holocaust deniers. I had assumed that the European nations that experienced the Holocaust would never have a resurgence of antisemitism, yet that has happened in European countries in recent years. In Hungary, for example, the antisemitism never dissipated. It has always been there to a greater or lesser degree.

The great horror fiction writer Robert Bloch (creator of the Norman Bates character) had a wicked sense of humor. He once was asked what he thought was the greatest horror story of all. He replied, "The history of mankind." (He was Jewish, by the way; so, he would obviously be familiar with the dark side of history.) I suspect he wasn't joking. The bright moments in history have been relatively few in number; and there have been some huge disappointments -- such as the 1917 Russian Revolution(s), which resulted in despotic totalitarianism instead of the liberal democratic Russia envisioned by Alexander Kerensky.

Do I believe the social progress made by black Americans could be reversed? Yes, I do. (And I do recognize that welfare dependence is a problem -- although I must say I'm not well-informed about the issue.)

I am not supporting either of the major political parties nor any of the smaller ones. As an emotionally and physically tired 67-year-old man, I'm completely disillusioned; and I hardly vote because I realize that my vote has never made a difference -- at least most of the time. In other words, I'm not aching for a debate or an argument. You won't get much from me in that regard. For what it's worth, I'm just sounding off like everyone else. A2K arguments won't have any impact on the way this country is run.

Perhaps I'm wrong. As always, in the long run time will tell.

Anything is possible but I find it extremely unlikely that the progress that has been made will be reversed.

At this point in America, it would take a dictator to do so, and since we escaped Woodrow Wilson, and FDR, we haven't had even a near brush with one of those.

I guess it depends on what you consider to be part of the "progress."

Affirmative Action can't go on for all time.

Welfare can, but I hardly see that as "progress" or unique to African Americans

While I've no doubt that there are racist relics, they are not being replaced at a rate of sustainability.

To the extent that Voter ID laws are a means to suppress the black vote, I really don't think it's motivated, in the main, by racism, as much as politics. If African-Americans didn't vote in such a monolithic fashion (for Dems) Republicans wouldn't be looking to suppress their votes. This doesn't excuse efforts at voter suppression, but both sides of the spectrum are guilty of actions motivated strictly by the desire to win power. If the Democrats thought that illegal immigrants would all vote Republican, they would change their tune on the issue overnight.

Both sides frame their desires as virtuous and their opponents' as vile. It doesn't make any of their claims true.

Good grief. I generally agree with you again. Has anyone ever told you that you sound more like an independent moderate than like a staunch conservative? (That's intended to be a compliment.)

I must say that if I had lived during the Woodrow Wilson era with my racially tolerant views intact, I would have voted for Teddy Roosevelt in the election in which Wilson was elected; and I would have voted for the Republican candidate against Wilson's reelection. Wilson was a hatefully mindless white supremacist who praised Birth of a Nation. FDR also was a racist. He had no intention of defying the Southern segregationist wing of his party. I'm not sure how I would have voted in 1932 and 1936; but I definitely would have voted for Wendell Willkie in 1940. Unlike FDR, Willkie was strongly supportive of civil rights. Of course, the WW2 internment of Japanese Americans -- one of whom was cicerone imposter as a child -- was racist to the core; and FDR also was afraid of upsetting anti-Semites by granting more European Jews visas (with the result that Anne Frank was allowed to die in Bergen-Belsen). The point is that the two major political parties have changed over the generations -- a fact that some people choose to ignore.

I don't know if I ever shared on A2K my up-close-and-personal anecdote about Missouri, so if I may I'll do so briefly here...
My first duty station after my basic and advanced individual training was Ft. Leonard Wood Missouri, in 199o.
Social and entertainment amenities were sparse at Ft Wood and the little adjoined Town of Waynesville. The nickname is "Fort Lost in the Woods". It's the sticks; the boondocks. My first indication that they might look askance at black folks walking around like free people was when I was refused service by a cab driver. Then there was the time where a white acquaintance saw me buying snacks at a gas station. She approached me, looking like she'd seen a ghost and said "It's almost dusk; you probably ought to get back to the base."I naturally asked what was up. She told me it's not safe for colored people (her words)in those parts after dark. Yup, in America in 1990-91. There were also the various and sundry times I overheard whites using the n-word freely and unashamedly, although no one ever called me that to my face.
I was a full grown man who didn't just fall off the turnip truck, but the situation there still made me question what I really knew about the country and the times.
From this recent story about the NAACP travel ban, it doesn't sound like things are changing very much there.

When I was there, my first clue, clerks waited on black customers civilly enough, but the instant the door closed behind them, the clerk almost always had an unkind comment about them. It was raw hatred for somebody that simply bought a pack of cigarettes or something, said nothing, and left.

Edit - In 1970, I worked in Louisiana for a project or two. It was the same thing there.

Thanks go to edgarblythe and snood for this info. People like Dennis Prager claim that the U.S. is no longer a racist country. If he were correct, we would have noticed the difference in states such as Missouri and Louisiana; but it's the same old, same old. I wonder if some day in the future this country will pay a heavy price for this charade. I wonder how long this will go on. "A house divided against itself cannot stand."

There are too many racists embedded in our cultural and legal structure. I don't know if we will ever get beyond racism.

That's a really shocking story, but it won't change the minds of those who choose not to hear.

Yeah that's why it's so sickening to hear people like Finn eagerly offer up his lofty opinions about the status of black Americans writ large. Just one year ago, a federal appeals court had to strike down voter suppression efforts in NC, writing in their ruling that "African American voters were targeted with surgical precision". Police brutality and the entire criminal justice system is still being used as a bludgeon to keep blacks in their place. The White House itself is being advised by a white nationalist.

People like Finn are always out there - opining about how, often racism against blacks is exaggerated. Volunteering his estimation (gleaned from God knows where - you think he hangs out and talks with any black people?) about the number of blacks living relatively free from the strictures of institutional racism.

There's real harm in letting people like Finn talk you into believing you're crazy for being vigilantly "woke" in 2017. He knows not what the **** he's talking about.

It is a terrible story and it's awful that you had to experience it. I've never denied that racism continues to stain our society, but in the nearly 20 years since your experience, a generation has passed and a new one has grown to adulthood and started having their own kids. Progress is being made. I would love to wave a wand and eliminate it over night, but, of course, that's not possible.

You have no more of an idea of my personal life than I do of yours. You're right that I don't hang out with black people, if that means being the only white person in a group of individuals, but my limited social circle contains one bi-racial couple (same socio-economic status), several African-American "in-laws" (via nieces and nephews), and African-American friends of my kids (one of whom is gay so I get double points...I'm afraid I have to point out this is a joke). Obviously this doesn't make me an expert on the black experience in America but it certainly provides me with some perspective.

In my company, 43% of the professional staff are African Americans

There are quite a few African-American conservatives who I greatly admire for not only their opinions but their accomplishments: Thomas Sowell, Ben Carson, William T. Coleman Jr., Senator Tim Scott, Justice Clarence Thomas, Shelby Steele and many others. You may consider these men "Uncle Toms," but in my opinion there are few more courageous Americans in our society than black conservatives.

As an African-American you are, obviously, less patient than I am with the rate of progress, and that is more than understandable, but I see no reason to deny that progress is being made. That fact doesn't mean that more progress isn't necessary.

You clearly have a deep antipathy towards me. Fine, I'm not your biggest fan either, but it has nothing to do with the color of your skin, and everything to do with what you post here.

No one is 100% pure of thought or deeds and I won't claim to be, in terms of the former, when it comes to race, but I know I'm not a racist.

Whether or not you concur is a matter of your opinion. I only care, because I don't appreciate being defamed.

He's been backtracking a lot recently, trying to portray himself as someone who has some humanity, but we know better.

It's pretty funny to see him whine about being defamed. Nothing defames so much as his own posts here.

Yeah, noticed that. It might be that he sees the screws tightening on his punk ass president and crew and he's trying to portray someone with traits of a humane person so he looks less complicit when the shyt starts hitting the fan.
You know, so he can appear to have some credibility when he starts acting like he's just mortifiedby all the brazen rottenness of Trump and crew that gets exposed.

I know this is off topic, but what gets me isn't so much the politics of the far right, but the sheer incompetence and bungling stupidity that characterises both the Bush and Trump presidencies. You've got to back to George Bush snr to find a Republican president who doesn't look like a bloody idiot, but still they sing their praises.