No Justice, No Peace

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

She didn't act poorly.

She may have been wrong to not have the dog on a leash, but her reaction to the creepy threats was perfectly reasonable.

What if a strange man starts menacing you in a park for some reason other than not having a dog on a leash?

Is it OK for progressives to lynch you if you call the police?

She acted extremely poorly.

Quote:

3 ) Avoid confrontation. If you are about to be attacked, try to talk your way out of things. The safest approach to self-defense is to avoid any potential physical confrontations. Put your ego away and do your best to reason with your potential attacker. If the attacker is asking for your wallet, just give it to him/her. No amount of money is worth your life. Avoid a physical confrontation at all costs. Talk, apologize, reason, scream, yell, walk away, run away, call for help, etc - do whatever you have to do to avoid a physical confrontation. YOUR ABSOLUTE LAST RESORT should be to defend yourself physically.

http://evolve-mma.blogspot.com/2011/06/7-golden-rules-of-self-defense.html

1 Reply

@neptuneblue,

What is wrong with calling the police when a creepy guy is menacing you?

1 Reply

@oralloy,

As a LAST resort, nothing. But there was no threat to her or her animal. Even it there were, her FIRST action would be to escape as quickly as possible. She didn't. She wanted to pick a fight.

Why didn't she file a criminal charge against him? Because it isn't against the law to tell someone to obey the law.

1 Reply

Duty to intervene: Floyd cops spoke up but didn't step in

Minneapolis was among several cities that had policies on the books requiring police officers to intervene to stop colleagues from using unreasonable force, but that didn’t save George Floyd and law enforcement experts say such rules will always run up against entrenched police culture and the fear of being ostracized and branded a “rat.”

Power dynamics may have been magnified in the Floyd case because two of the four officers involved were rookies and the most senior officer on the scene was a training officer, Derek Chauvin, a 19-year police veteran who was seen putting his knee on the back of the black man’s neck despite his cries that he couldn’t breathe.

Even though lawyers for the rookie officers say both men voiced their concerns about Chauvin’s actions in the moment, they ultimately failed to stop him. Chauvin is now charged with second-degree murder, and his three fellow officers are charged with aiding and abetting.

“This is a lesson for every cop in America: If you see something that is wrong, you need to step in,” said Joseph Giacalone, a former New York police sergeant who now teaches at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice. “There are a lot of gray areas in policing, but this was crystal clear. … You’re better off being ostracized by the group than going to prison for murder.”

https://apnews.com/0d52f8accbbdab6a29b781d75e9aeb01?utm_source=piano&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=morningwire&pnespid=m.hkt6lCAQeNuuFbdQf_gxwk.FirWJU_vbDV2EoZ

0 Replies

Minneapolis' Third Precinct served as 'playground' for renegade cops

Source: Star Tribune

Even before George Floyd was killed, the south Minneapolis precinct had a reputation for being home to police officers who played by their own rules.

June 7, 2020 — 11:52am

Long before former officer Derek Chauvin knelt on George Floyd’s neck, the Third Precinct in south Minneapolis had a reputation for being home to police officers who played by their own rules.

One officer kicked a handcuffed suspect in the face, leaving his jaw in pieces. Officers beat and pistol-whipped a suspect in a parking lot on suspicion of low-level drug charges. Others harassed residents of a south Minneapolis housing project as they headed to work, and allowed prostitution suspects to touch their genitals for several minutes before arresting them in vice stings.

These and more substantiated incidents, detailed in court records and police reports, help explain a saying often used by fellow cops to describe the style of policing practiced in the Third: There’s the way that the Minneapolis Police Department does things, and then there’s the way they do it “in Threes.”

Between 2007 and 2017, the city paid out $2.1 million to settle misconduct lawsuits involving Third Precinct officers. Judges have thrown out cases for “outrageous” conduct of the officers, and prosecutors have been forced to drop charges for searches found to be illegal, according to court records.

The brand of aggressive policing on display in the Floyd video has long been standard practice for some Third Precinct officers when dealing with suspects of nonviolent, low-level crimes, often involving people of color, said Abigail Cerra, a commissioner for Minneapolis’ Police Conduct Oversight Commission.

“My clients were constantly getting anal searches,” said Cerra, who also has been a public defender. “Not at the hospital. At the Third Precinct.”

Chauvin and the other three officers who assisted in Floyd’s arrest — all of whom worked at the Third Precinct — have been fired and now face criminal charges. That has not satisfied protesters, who continue to call for more action from city officials, ranging from drastically overhauling to dismantling the police force.....................................

Read more: https://www.startribune.com/third-precinct-served-as-playground-for-renegade-cops/571076562/

0 Replies

@neptuneblue,

neptuneblue wrote:

livinglava wrote:
If the exact same situation had involved a white man instead of a black man, would you be arguing the same case you are arguing now?

No, you'd be arguing that the woman felt threatened and should be believed; and that the police not arresting the man was due to sexism and white-male privilege.

And which argument is that?

You are arguing that the woman was harassing the man by calling the police to report him threatening to steal her dog if she didn't leash it.

Quote:

The one where someone broke the law, got called out for their behavior and acted poorly about it?

If it was a white man threatening to steal the woman's dog to punish her for failing to keep it leashed, you would have called it vigilantism and said that only a white man with white privilege would have the gaul to take matters into his own hands instead of just reporting the woman.

Quote:

Me personally, would not have put myself into a situation like this, as my animal is ALWAYS under control in public. But if it were not the case and I got busted with my dog not on a leash, after being confronted about it, I would have immediately leashed the damn thing and be on my way.

This isn't a sexist or a racist incident until it becomes one.

I'm not saying it was a racist incident or not, because I don't exactly how race factored in for the two people involved. What I'm saying is that you would change your interpretation and expectations of the situation based on the gender and racial identities of the people involved.

1 Reply

@livinglava,

It proves she wasn't frightened or intimidated by Mr. Cooper. Several times she charged AT him, not AWAY from him.

You don't know what I would have said since that's not the scenario that was documented, either by video or by police report.

Yes, the situation does change depending on circumstances. In this case, Ms. Cooper had plenty of opportunity and time to escape IF she had felt she was in any danger.

She wasn't, and knew that.

2 Replies

@neptuneblue,

neptuneblue wrote:

It proves she wasn't frightened or intimidated by Mr. Cooper. Several times she charged AT him, not AWAY from him.

So if a white man is harassing you and threatening to steal your dog to teach you a lesson for not having it leashed, and you don't feel threatened by him, then you shouldn't call the police about him harassing you? What exactly should you do to make him go away and stop harassing you?

Quote:

You don't know what I would have said since that's not the scenario that was documented, either by video or by police report.

I just think that you choose who to take sides with based on the race/gender/sexual identity of the people involved, so you would evaluate the same situation differently depending on whether it's a white or black man, a white or black woman, etc.

I understand that there are different issues with the police depending on your identity, but on some level you have to just call the police instead of continuing to deal with a person on your own, e.g. if they won't just go away and leave you alone.

Now if the dog was threatening and/or harassing the man, regardless of his color, I would say he should call the police on the woman. He probably shouldn't have threatened to steal the dog to teach her a lesson, but I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing in his position, and that I wouldn't be irritated when the woman decided to call the police by taking the threat as a real threat instead of the way I meant it, which was just to exemplify what would/could happen to a person who doesn't follow leash laws.

Quote:

Yes, the situation does change depending on circumstances. In this case, Ms. Cooper had plenty of opportunity and time to escape IF she had felt she was in any danger.

She wasn't, and knew that.

If it was a white man, you would say she was being harassed and shouldn't have had to escape. You would say she was being harassed and if the man wanted her to leash her dog, he should have reported her instead of taking matters into her own hands.

I don't know why I try to communicate with you in threads because you just don't or won't understand things I say. You just have to spin everything to your own terms and refuse to understand a different POV before stating your own in response.

1 Reply

@livinglava,

livinglava wrote:

So if a white man is harassing you and threatening to steal your dog to teach you a lesson for not having it leashed, and you don't feel threatened by him, then you shouldn't call the police about him harassing you? What exactly should you do to make him go away and stop harassing you?

You follow the law, put your animal in compliance of the law, and LEASH it.

livinglava wrote:

I just think that you choose who to take sides with based on the race/gender/sexual identity of the people involved, so you would evaluate the same situation differently depending on whether it's a white or black man, a white or black woman, etc.

I take the side of the Law. I'm sorry if you feel lawlessness is useful, regardless of race or gender.

livinglava wrote:

I understand that there are different issues with the police depending on your identity, but on some level you have to just call the police instead of continuing to deal with a person on your own, e.g. if they won't just go away and leave you alone.

Now if the dog was threatening and/or harassing the man, regardless of his color, I would say he should call the police on the woman. He probably shouldn't have threatened to steal the dog to teach her a lesson, but I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing in his position, and that I wouldn't be irritated when the woman decided to call the police by taking the threat as a real threat instead of the way I meant it, which was just to exemplify what would/could happen to a person who doesn't follow leash laws.

When do you call the police? When you're hurt or about to get hurt. Ms. Cooper was neither of those. She played the victim card to her advantage, called the police unnecessarily, created a dangerous situation for a person who asked her to follow the law and was indignant and vindictive. Hardly traits to be desired, but you seem to admire those traits by defending her actions.

livinglava wrote:

If it was a white man, you would say she was being harassed and shouldn't have had to escape. You would say she was being harassed and if the man wanted her to leash her dog, he should have reported her instead of taking matters into her own hands.

I don't know why I try to communicate with you in threads because you just don't or won't understand things I say. You just have to spin everything to your own terms and refuse to understand a different POV before stating your own in response.

Again, this isn't a race or gender issue. It''s simply a matter of following the law. How you can spin the narrative to your own racial bias defies logic.

Be a better person.

2 Replies

APD officer charged in Tasing of students also tied to death of man shot 76 times by police

This piece of **** is now suing the mayor and city for firing him after his disgusting attack on those students in their car.

ATLANTA — One of the Atlanta police officers charged in the Tasing of two college students during a protest is under investigation for a 2016 shooting that left a mentally-ill man dead.
Jamarion Rashad Robinson, 26, was killed in August 2016 after federal authorities say they went to serve a warrant on him in his girlfriend’s East Point apartment. They believed he fit the description of someone who had pointed a gun at Atlanta police officers days earlier.
Autopsy reports show Robinson was shot 76 times by members of federal task force. According to court filings it is still unclear whether Robinson was armed, and none of the officers were using body cameras.

“There’s no evidence there was a gun,” said Monteria Robinson, Jamarion’s mother. "We know that was their narrative,” she told Channel 2 Action News investigative reporter Nicole Carr.
Robinson had no criminal history, and was a former Clark Atlanta student. At the time of his death, he was a student-athlete at Tuskegee University. His family said he was schizophrenic.
“Do I believe my son was the person they were looking for? No I do not. I don’t know if you all recall — on the scene, they showed my mother and two brothers a photo of the person they were looking for and it was not my son.”

][link:https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/apd-officer-charged-tasing-arrest-auc-students-under-investigation-2016-deadly-shooting/G57HRV7YQFFFLAQABN3C2O23BY/|

Robinson died in a hail of gunfire after a fugitive task force armed with weapons that included submachine guns broke down the door in the Atlanta suburb of East Point, Georgia, in August 2016, and fired more than 90 rounds "into or inside" the apartment, according to the lawsuit.

[link:https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/prosecutor-accuses-doj-blocking-investigation-death-student-shot-59-times-n952816|

Meanwhile - if you read the joke of a report-it says that before they got to the apartment, they were briefed about their suspect. Including the fact that he was mentally unstable. I'm not sure if they put that in there to justify their actions.It actually makes them look worse. You needed sub machine guns to take a mentally ill man into custody?

0 Replies

@neptuneblue,

neptuneblue wrote:

It proves she wasn't frightened or intimidated by Mr. Cooper.

That is incorrect. She was feeling menaced by him

neptuneblue wrote:

Several times she charged AT him, not AWAY from him.

That was because she was trying to make him go away and stop menacing her.

neptuneblue wrote:

Yes, the situation does change depending on circumstances. In this case, Ms. Cooper had plenty of opportunity and time to escape IF she had felt she was in any danger.

Not really. She had to keep control over her unleashed dog. She was not able to just turn and flee.

neptuneblue wrote:

She wasn't, and knew that.

That is incorrect. She didn't know that.

0 Replies

@neptuneblue,

neptuneblue wrote:

You follow the law, put your animal in compliance of the law, and LEASH it.

That is a completely separate issue from calling the police because a stranger is menacing you.

That she should have had her dog on a leash is a given. But she still had the right to be safe from menacing thugs.

neptuneblue wrote:

I take the side of the Law.

If you sided with the law, you would be saying that she had the right to call the police when being menaced by a stranger.

neptuneblue wrote:

When do you call the police? When you're hurt or about to get hurt. Ms. Cooper was neither of those.

She could very well have been about to get hurt for all she knew when she made the call.

neptuneblue wrote:

She played the victim card to her advantage, called the police unnecessarily, created a dangerous situation for a person who asked her to follow the law and was indignant and vindictive.

She was feeling menaced and she wanted the menacing thug to go away and leave her alone.

neptuneblue wrote:

Again, this isn't a race or gender issue. It's simply a matter of following the law.

If it was just a matter of following the law, you would be recognizing her right to call the police when she is being menaced by a stranger.

1 Reply

@neptuneblue,

neptuneblue wrote:

As a LAST resort, nothing.

If someone calls the police only as a last resort, the police will probably discover their body.

People should call the police as soon as danger seems apparent.

neptuneblue wrote:

But there was no threat to her or her animal.

That is incorrect. He told her that she was not going to like what he was about to do, and then he tried to lure her pet away from her.

neptuneblue wrote:

Even it there were, her FIRST action would be to escape as quickly as possible. She didn't. She wanted to pick a fight.

She wanted him to go away and stop menacing her.

neptuneblue wrote:

Why didn't she file a criminal charge against him? Because it isn't against the law to tell someone to obey the law.

Because he had gone away and stopped menacing her.

0 Replies

@oralloy,

So, since neither one of us are mind readers and cannot say definitively what was going through Ms. Cooper's head, psychological profiles clearly state what kind of actions should be taken if one is under attack.

http://www.functionalselfdefense.org/awareness-prevention

At no time did Ms. Cooper follow any guidance regarding safety for herself or her animal. This makes her stupid more than scared. Again, she had ample opportunity to escape the situation, which, living in NYC, she must have known how to evade an attack.

She didn't. She escalated a situation. She taunted, bullied, cajoled and provoked an innocent person.

Once the truth of the recording came out, and she felt the repercussions of her actions, did she admit she was wrong.

I can only hope you do the same.

2 Replies

@neptuneblue,

Three pages of this and they're still not done. Pretty much killed the subject, and definitely killed the thread.

The facts are simple. The video. The police report that says when they got on scene both parties had moved on. Ms. Coopers apology.

2 Replies

0 Replies

@bobsal u1553115,

Lynch mobs sure don't like it when I stand up to them and tell them that it's wrong for them to harm innocent people.

0 Replies

@neptuneblue,

neptuneblue wrote:

At no time did Ms. Cooper follow any guidance regarding safety for herself or her animal. This makes her stupid more than scared.

Maybe she was unaware of your guidelines or didn't agree with them.

neptuneblue wrote:

She didn't. She escalated a situation. She taunted, bullied, cajoled and provoked an innocent person.

Sometimes that can convince a menacing thug to go away.

neptuneblue wrote:

Once the truth of the recording came out, and she felt the repercussions of her actions, did she admit she was wrong.
I can only hope you do the same.

Lynch mobs don't intimidate me. I will defend innocent people no matter what sort of bullying crap the lynch mobs pull.

0 Replies

@neptuneblue,

neptuneblue wrote:

You follow the law, put your animal in compliance of the law, and LEASH it.

Sometimes I see people with their dogs not leashed, and I don't say anything because the dog seems harmless. If a person has a dog that seem aggressive or potentially threatening in some way, I might ask them to please leash their dog. If I walked up to someone and got in their face commanding them to leash their dog because it's the law, they would probably tell me to back off because I'm not a cop, and then my recourse would be to call the police or let it go.

Quote:

I take the side of the Law. I'm sorry if you feel lawlessness is useful, regardless of race or gender.

What does the law say I should and/or am entitled to do if I tell someone to leash their dog because it is the law and they ignore my request? What is my recourse?

Quote:

When do you call the police? When you're hurt or about to get hurt. Ms. Cooper was neither of those. She played the victim card to her advantage, called the police unnecessarily, created a dangerous situation for a person who asked her to follow the law and was indignant and vindictive. Hardly traits to be desired, but you seem to admire those traits by defending her actions.

I haven't said anything about admiring or praising any traits. In your mind, there might be a trait beauty-contest going on, but I'm not in the business of evaluating anyone's beauty, in terms of traits or otherwise.

So if you tell someone to obey the law when they're not, and they ignore you, you are just supposed to leave them alone and not report the violation?

Quote:

Again, this isn't a race or gender issue. It''s simply a matter of following the law. How you can spin the narrative to your own racial bias defies logic.

Be a better person.

My point was that you assess the same situation differently depending on the race/gender of the people involved. You deny it, but that's what you do.

0 Replies

@bobsal u1553115,

bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Three pages of this and they're still not done. Pretty much killed the subject, and definitely killed the thread.

The facts are simple. The video. The police report that says when they got on scene both parties had moved on. Ms. Coopers apology.

It's a big issue. Whether you're being harassed by an unleashed dog or whether you want to have a dog to protect you against potentially-threatening strangers, it is a bad situation.

A dog is a potential weapon. It can be a defensive or offensive weapon, depending on how it's used. If a person seems to be following/stalking you, you might want to take your dog off the leash in case the person is planning to attack you, but if you are a person walking behind someone on the same path with no intent to attack them, you become a victim of harassment when the person in front of you unleashes their dog to protect against you as a potential threat.

0 Replies

No Justice, No Peace

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know