No Justice, No Peace

Do you believe that black people in the US are 10 times more likely to commit a crime than white people?

Because it sounds like you're saying that, when you quote that statistic.

Each minority is treated differently. I am no expert to tell somebody why, but it seems rooted in cultural perceptions. Blacks are seen as menacing and likely to kill the men and rape the women. There is fear of the black male in the white psyche. Because humans are a territorial animal, the whites react at a visceral level, wanting the blacks gone. Mexicans are a whole other animal, as prejudice goes. The Jews have their category. And so with all minorities.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.

The most outrageous statement made so far is this from snood:



So if I tell a black or brown person about my experience with police brutality, I am minimizing theirs?

Is "police brutality" something African-Americans want all to themselves? White people need not apply?

You can't have a sensible discussion with anyone when you deny the validity of anything they say, based on an assumption that they can't possibly know what it's like to be black, a woman, a gay, an Albanian etc because they are not one.

But sensible discussions are rarely actually called for. Instead what is called for is agreement with the person launching the discussion.

The title of this thread is "No Justice, No Peace," yet another ridiculous slogan. It's always a good idea to promote your position with a threat, isn't it?

What does this statement mean? If I don't believe justice has been done, you (society?) will pay the price?

And what's the price?

Most of the riots have been in black communities and black citizens have paid the price.

But who should pay the price?

Any and all white citizens?

The guy a gang of thugs beat up in a Charlotte Parking Deck deserved to pay the price? He was white, so I guess so. Maybe he tried to share a police brutality experience with his attackers.

Robert Reich
1 hr ·
Assume, for the sake of argument, that the account given by the Charlotte police of how they came to fatally shoot Keith Lamont Scott on Tuesday is true – that he had a handgun. Okay. So what? North Carolina is an open-carry state (like 30 other states) where a citizen has the right to walk around with a handgun.
The Charlotte police department says its officers saw Scott “inside a vehicle in the apartment complex. The subject exited the vehicle armed with a handgun. Officers observed the subject get back into the vehicle at which time they began to approach the subject.”
So exactly what illegal activity did the Charlotte police observe before they approached “the subject?” The only conclusion it’s possible to draw is that it’s illegal to carry a handgun in North Carolina if you’re African-American.

Robert Reich has an opinion...Stop the Presses!!

And while we're at it, stop the investigation and stop due process.

Throw the black cop who shot the black citizen in jail because Robert Reich believe the only logical conclusion is that the citizen was murdered by the cop.

Oh, and by the way since Reich has concluded the citizen was murdered by the cop, riots in the street are justified.

Oh Boy. Finn is commenting on a thread about racism. Let me settle in so I can soak up all the wisdom.

About as relevant as a blind man's critique of a Picasso. A babbling blind man who takes himself utterly seriously.

Oh yes, I am the white bread privileged one and you're the poor black whose life is a constant injustice. I have moved to another country, worked hard and made a good living. Try doing the same in another country! I am not black, but I am a woman and as such we have our own discrimination package to deal with and I do so, without playing the victim card. I do what is necessary to make my life enjoyable.



That ends it for me, right here and now!

Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

See?

You just want an honest discussion.

It's not that simple. Racism is not an absolute, despite what the Trump campaign has been telling you, it's not either or. You don't have to be a card carrying member of the KKK to be guilty of racist thinking.

You took a raw statistic about black prison numbers as proof that black people are more criminally predisposed than the general population. You didn't see it as proof of a penal system that's disproportionately harsher on black people.

You need to ask yourself why you thought that, because that notion goes back a long way. If black people are more criminally inclined then they're more savage, more bestial. And that justifies everything from slavery to segregation and today's racist policing. Your not alone in this by any means, Ghandi has been in the news recently because of how he described black Africans. His statue may not last long at the University of Ghana.

I'm not calling Ghandi a racist just pointing out that even the best of us can be guilty of racist thinking. You don't have to do it, you can stop. It's not easy though, holding on to racist assumptions is quite comforting because it means you don't have to do anything about racism. It's not your problem, it's theirs, they brought it upon themselves, it's their fault.

That certainly beats a bit of honest self reflection.

I just watched the cell phone video released by the deceased's family.

It doesn't show anything.

His wife is yelling "Don't shoot him, he doesn't have a gun!"

Shortly thereafter the cops are yelling "Drop the gun! Drop the ******* gun!"

His wife then yells (I'm paraphrasing) "Keith, don't let them break the window, get out of the car!" She says something to this effect twice.

Then (again, at least twice) she yells "Don't you do it Keith!"

Meanwhile the cops are yelling for Keith to drop the gun.

Then the shooting begins.

The only thing that strikes me from this video (in terms of what actually may have happened) is the wife yelling "Don't you do it Keith!"

Do what? It can't be "Don't get out of the car," because prior to that she was telling him to get out of the car.

Obviously I don't know what she mean't but it's not a stretch to consider that perhaps she meant "Don't raise that gun."

The alternative is that multiple cops were yelling for him to drop a gun he didn't have, and then one of them decided to shoot him.

Possible? I guess so. Likely? No.

The Charlotte PD is not going to be able to sweep this under a rug. If it looks like they're trying to, the DOJ will get involved as they did in Ferguson.

Here's what we have to consider:

The man's wife says he didn't have a gun, he had a book.

She clearly told him not to do something just before the shooting started.

A black cop shot and killed him.

A black Chief of Police has said he is certain the shooting was justified, and that eye witnesses will confirm this.

So far we haven't heard from any eye witnesses other than the wife.

If you witnessed police murdering an innocent man would you remain silent? Maybe, and maybe someone will come forward in the next several days and say just this.

If you saw what the police say you saw would you come forward to the press? In this case I doubt it. There are far too many people you would have to continue to live near who want this to be a murder by cop.

There are so many holes in the narrative that racist cops murdered an unarmed man and then tried to cover it up, that it doesn't bear scrutiny.

It may, eventually, prove to be that was just what happened and then any and all cops involved should be thrown in jail for a long time, but right now there is no rational reason to conclude that it happened that way, that there is no justice, and therefore there should be no peace.

If in anyone's opinion, the cops are always murdering innocent black people, facts won't matter and the feeble argument that rioting is justified will be made.

Just not sure at all, why folks can't wait and see.

It's not as if we haven't seen it unfold before where the narrative of a racist cop killing an innocent black man was utterly disproved.

In this situation, I don't know enough. I have to read more and I haven't seen the videos. I'm predisposed to be for the guy who was killed, as he was doing a routine thing, waiting for his son. I do think he probably had a book in hand first, but of course, maybe not. Maybe he usually read while waiting. I read he got out of the car and went back in; what was that about? did he see the cops and go back for a gun in the car to protect himself? Was it in fact a gun? Were the cops not in uniform but in plainclothes? They were after somebody else, weren't they? Guy could have been ready to defend himself from whoever those men were....

Or he got out of the car ready to shoot the cops knowing they were cops, possible.

In any case, it's more odd business between the police who are here to serve and protect the people, and the people, especially black people.

When I have said it's a matter of training, and think that is part of it, I think before that it is a matter of police culture, starting from the top.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article103737896.html

September 23, 2016 4:26 PM
Video at fatal police shooting appears to show no weapon near Scott

By Mark Washburn, Ames Alexander and Steve Harrison

A cell phone video shot by Rakeyia Scott, wife of the man killed by a Charlotte police officer Tuesday, does not appear to show a gun on the ground near her husband in the seconds after the shooting.

Scott was bringing a cell phone charger to her husband, Keith Lamont Scott, who was parked in his truck outside their apartment at The Village at College Downs complex, when she saw police near him, her attorneys told The New York Times on Friday.

She used the phone to make a video of the confrontation, which her attorneys shared with the Times and other national media outlets. In it, police can be heard at least seven times shouting “Drop the gun!” as she pleads with officers not to shoot him.

Four shots are heard in rapid succession, and Mrs. Scott advances on the scene. Eighteen seconds after the shots, her husband’s body becomes visible on the ground with four officers over him.

In the video, there is nothing at the victim’s feet, but a photograph circulated Thursday on social media from a similar angle appeared to show a dark, L-shaped object a few feet from the soles of his shoes.

It could not be determined when the photograph was taken, but enough time had elapsed after Mrs. Scott’s video ends for police to rope off the area with crime-scene tape, but medics had not yet arrived.

In the photograph, some of Scott’s clothing appeared to have been removed. It is not known whether that was a result of life-saving efforts or an effort to search him for weapons.

Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Chief Kerr Putney told The Charlotte Observer in an interview that the department, which monitors social media, got the photograph after the shooting and it appeared to be a genuine, undoctored image.

“We were lucky enough to get a photo that helps us add context,” Putney said. “We believe it to be authentic.”

Police have said that a gun was recovered at the scene of the shooting, but have not said where it was found.

Charlotte Mecklenburg police issued a statement Friday saying it could not comment because the State Bureau of Investigation had taken over the investigation.

Charlotte Mayor Jennifer Roberts said Friday that police dashboard and body cam videos of the shooting could not be released because of the SBI probe.

“I respect the investigative process and I want to ensure the integrity of the independent investigation of the State Bureau of Investigation,” Roberts said in a statement.

“I urge it to use every resource at its disposal to get this done and release the information to the public as quickly as possible.”

WBTV, the Observer’s news partner, reported that police sources said that Scott’s DNA and blood were found on the gun recovered at the scene.
Expert analysis

Geoffrey Alpert, a professor of criminology at the University of South Carolina, said he has seen the still photograph of the victim. He believes it shows a handgun near the victim’s body.

He said an expert would need to examine the cell phone video in detail to determine whether or not there is a gun on the ground.

But he said it’s “concerning” if it appears there is no handgun in the video.

“It’s very concerning if there is a video of when he was shot, and there is no gun,” he said, “then you have to wonder how the gun showed up and where it showed up.”

Alpert said the footage raises questions.

“I looked at the video and it looks pretty strange,” Alpert said. “There is no gun.”

Kenneth Williams, a law professor at the Houston College of Law, said it’s possible the gun can’t be seen in the video. It’s also possible for the gun to have been placed near his body after the shooting, he said.
Witnesses didn’t see gun

Neighbors at the apartment complex who witnessed the aftermath of the shooting said Friday they didn’t remember seeing a weapon near Scott’s body.

Fostoria Robinson said she was in her apartment Tuesday afternoon when she heard gunshots. From about 150 feet away, she said, she saw Scott falling to the pavement. She saw nothing in his hand, she said.

Kendall Reynolds said he also went to check what was happening after he heard gunshots. He said he saw Scott convulsing on the ground. But he saw no gun near him.

“I was looking for one,” Reynolds said.

Representing the Scott family are attorneys Justin Bamberg and Eduardo Curry of Charleston.

Mark Washburn: 704-358-5007, @WashburnChObs

(There is a photo along with the article.)

This is BS. No one can tell whether or not the victim had a gun based on the wife's video.

If it is an open carry state, even if he had a gun, which seems less likely than some want to believe, they had no probable cause to approach him.

Why is it less likely?

Experiment

Simply whether he had a gun or not should have no bearing on how quickly those officers chose lethal force. If the goddam "open carry" laws apply to black people too.

What about recruitment? The first question should be, Are you scared of black people? If they answer 'Yes' they can eff off.

What little footage that has emerged has shown armed white police pissing themselves while pointing a gun at wounded/dead unarmed black civilians. I think fear is the main cause of all this, they're terrified of black people which is why they overreact.