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When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ? Part 2

 
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2016 01:01 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

Quote:
When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy?


any moment. right?

It depends on what you mean by "moment". But I think it's safe to say that Hillary Clinton will cease to be a candidate five days from now.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2016 01:29 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:
It depends on what you mean by "moment". But I think it's safe to say that Hillary Clinton will cease to be a candidate five days from now.
My guess is that it will be in January, until the results of the Electoral College vote are announced.
Builder
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2016 02:27 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
...until the results of the Electoral College vote are announced.


Wait! You mean the people's vote is meaningless?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2016 05:58 am
@McGentrix,
It is intended to show that Glenn's argument that failure to archive emails is a crime is false. It wasn't a crime when the Bush WH did it. It doesn't constitute the basis of a crime if Clinton did it when her lawyers failed to identify a few hundred emails as work instead of personal.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2016 06:23 am
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2016 06:35 am
@Thomas,
Hello thomas!
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2016 06:39 am
Quote:
The conservative group Heritage Action is pushing Republican senators to keep the Supreme Court at eight justices if Democrat Hillary Clinton is elected president.

In a Thursday morning briefing at the Heritage Foundation’s Washington headquarters on Capitol Hill, the group said Republicans should embrace the idea of leaving the Supreme Court without its ninth justice, perhaps for as long as five years.

Dan Holler, Heritage Action’s vice president of communications and government relations, signaled that this year’s Republican blockade of President Obama’s nominee, Merrick Garland, is just the beginning of a fight that could last the entire first term of a Clinton presidency.
http://bit.ly/2eJn5Dj

These people are about as scummy as it gets.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  4  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2016 06:41 am
@Thomas,
hehehehehe

the German literalists check in

Very Happy

we're so bad
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2016 08:43 am
@parados,
Quote:
Where are these emails at present if you are going to argue they are essential transactions of the agency

You know that my point is that she failed to turn them over both during and after her tenure as Secretary of State. And you know that she did not turn them all over. You are ignoring my previous post which makes that clear.
________________________________________________
Quote:
Failure to turn over a few emails is hardly a crime because there is no law making it a crime.

Since 2009, NARA's regulations have stated that "Agencies that allow employees to send and receive official electronic mail messages using a system not operated by the agency must ensure that Federal records sent or received on such systems are preserved in the appropriate agency recordkeeping system."

This rule is clear: If Clinton used personal email to conduct official business—which apparently did not violate any federal rules at the time—all of those emails had to be collected and preserved within the State Department's recordkeeping system. That makes sense: The whole point of preserving official records of government business is to have this material controlled by the government, not by the individual official or employee. Yet in this case, Clinton and her aides apparently did not preserve all her emails within the system.

__________________________________________________

I have the feeling that you are going to try to make a distinction between a law and a regulation.

So this is for you:

Regulation

Regulations are details that are added by executive agencies and departments to the laws. This is done to apply or put into practice the laws made by the legislative assembly. Regulations are also enforceable like laws but remain subordinate to them. The laws of the land are made by the legislative branch of a government while regulations are made by its executive branch, to make the implementation of these laws easier. Many laws are simple enough to understand and do not require details attached to them.

___________________________________________

I'm on my way out the door, but will return to address the rest of your post in a more succinct manner.


revelette2
 
  3  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2016 09:13 am
Personally I just don't think a good deal of voting population cares too much about these emails sagas of Hillary Clinton, no matter how many ways it gets brought up. Which is why Hillary is going to win and Trump and a good deal of republicans are going to lose.

Jennifer Rubin: As we get closer to Election Day, remember . . .

Quote:
As you watch your own countdown clock, remember:

1. Election Day — or the start of Election Day — started weeks ago. We have passed 30 million early votes cast. By Election Day, 40 percent of votes may have been cast.

2. It is here, in early voting, where Trump’s clownish campaign may cost him. Compared with Hillary Clinton, he has a feeble get-out-the-vote (early and otherwise) operation. The Republican National Committee from all appearances has not made up the difference. Will the GOP keep pace with Democrats’ early voting machine? Did Democrats get a critical leg up by locking in their voters early? One way we will be able to judge Clinton’s early vote operation is by large Hispanic participation in places like Arizona, Florida and Nevada.

3. Clinton can lose Florida, Ohio, Georgia, Iowa, New Hampshire and North Carolina — and still win. Take the solid blue states, add in Nevada, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Colorado and Virginia (she is leading in nearly every poll in all of them) and you get to 272 electoral votes. If she wins, say, Florida or North Carolina, Trump’s chances are all but over.

4. If African American voting perks up in Florida and North Carolina, Clinton will be indebted to President Obama, who has made multiple trips to each state. First lady Michelle Obama has more than done her share of the campaign duties.

5. Should Arizona flip to the Democrats, recall two speeches — Donald Trump’s mass deportation address in late August and Sen. Tim Kaine’s all-Spanish speech this week. These are two parties with entirely different approaches to a critical voting bloc.

6. The secret Trump voters don’t exist in large numbers, according to a new study. (Trump would say it is because they are secret!). A Politico/Morning Consult poll found that “a hidden army of Trump voters that’s undetected by the polls is unlikely to materialize on Election Day. The study — which was composed of interviews with likely voters conducted over the phone with a live interviewer, and other interviews conducted online without a personal interaction — showed only a slight, not-statistically-significant difference in their effect on voters’ preferences for president.)” One wonders how long it will take for Republicans to give up the myth of the missing white voter, a fantasy that allows them to continue their anti-immigrant posturing.

7. Women may have the final and decisive word on Trump. It appears that there are more women than expected who are voting early. “We have three states that we can look at that data from publicly – Florida, Georgia and North Carolina,” Michael McDonald, founder of the Elections Project and an associate professor at the University of Florida, said Tuesday in an NPR interview. “We are seeing an uptick of women who are voting in these states. It’s a small number. You know, it’s only about a percentage point or so. But if that’s – you know, if the election becomes very close, we might think that that might be decisive in the election outcome in some of these states.” Sometimes what goes around, comes around.
realjohnboy
 
  4  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2016 09:52 am
My usual day starts at 4am and shuts down around 9pm (all times are ET). I will try to stay up later on Tuesday night.
I think that we should have a pretty clear idea of the outcome by about 10pm.
Polls close at 7 in Florida, Georgia, South Carolina and Virginia. North Carolina follows at 7:30.
FLA and NC are tossups while the other three are not.
We may not get a result from FLA until much later due its size and "other factors."
GA, SC and VA should come in earlier and tell us much about voter turnout in general, about rural vs urban, about turnout amongst black voters, Hispanics and assorted other demographics (age, gender, undecided etc).
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2016 10:05 am
@revelette2,
Quote:
Personally I just don't think a good deal of voting population cares too much about these emails sagas of Hillary Clinton, no matter how many ways it gets brought up. Which is why Hillary is going to win and Trump and a good deal of republicans are going to lose.


Your grandiose ideas make me smile. Very Happy
revelette2
 
  3  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2016 10:08 am
@reasoning logic,
Thank you, nothing wrong with a positive attitude. I just hope the republicans don't get away with what they are doing in black neighborhoods in the south with messing with the screens on the voting machines.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2016 10:14 am
@Glennn,
Quote:

You know that my point is that she failed to turn them over both during and after her tenure as Secretary of State. And you know that she did not turn them all over. You are ignoring my previous post which makes that clear.

Your argument is bull ****. It isn't evidence of a crime. It is evidence she didn't exactly follow procedure. That doesn't make it a crime.

Violating a regulation is not a crime unless the regulation comes from a law that makes something criminal. You claimed she violated US Code. Bringing up regulations doesn't support your argument. Regulations are not US Code.

Quote:

So this is for you:

Regulation

Regulations are details that are added by executive agencies and departments to the laws. This is done to apply or put into practice the laws made by the legislative assembly. Regulations are also enforceable like laws but remain subordinate to them. The laws of the land are made by the legislative branch of a government while regulations are made by its executive branch, to make the implementation of these laws easier. Many laws are simple enough to understand and do not require details attached to them.

All laws are not criminal laws. Most regulations are civil regulations.
You claimed she violated US Code. Pointing to regulations that have nothing to do with the criminal code but are based on laws that have no criminal penalty only shows how bull **** your argument is.

Of course, we shouldn't forget that the Supreme Court of the US disagrees with your assessment.
Quote:
In January, in one of the most riveting cases of the current session, the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 in favor of Transportation Security Administration (TSA) whistleblower Robert MacLean, holding that agency rules and regulations do not equate to laws.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2016 10:17 am
@parados,
The fact that she was not charged with a crime makes this argument meaningless.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2016 03:34 pm
@parados,
Quote:
In January, in one of the most riveting cases of the current session, the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 in favor of Transportation Security Administration (TSA) whistleblower Robert MacLean, holding that agency rules and regulations do not equate to laws.

We'll start with this. What was actually said is: "interpreting the word ‘law’ to include rules and regulations could defeat the purpose of the whistleblower statute. That interpretation would allow an agency to insulate itself… simply by promulgating a regulation that ‘specifically prohibited’ all whistleblowing.”

So your use of paraphrasing did not encompass the meaning of the decision.

The example you provided had to do with TSA attempting to override McLean's legal rights under the Whistle Blower Act by superseding them with their own regulations. They attempted to undermine a law with a regulation. And since there is no comparison between Clinton's failure to turn her emails over after her tenure as Secretary of State and sending and receiving classified information over her unsecured personal email server, and Robert McLean's right to blow the whistle on the TSA, what exactly was your point?
_____________________________________________

So now let's get back to reality.

It is important to note that in legal translation the word ‘regulation’ is used to denote a set of rules that have legal connotations. Regulations are official in use whereas rules are not official in use. This is one of the key differences between rules and regulations. Also when speaking of the context in which regulations can be seen one can notice another striking difference. Regulations usually pertain to a workplace such as an office or a firm.

Another way of differentiating regulations from rules is that regulations are a set of standards that must be followed at any cost. These standards will not change. On the other hand, rules should be followed for the betterment of a workplace or a concern. Rules are at times transgressed. Regulations cannot be transgressed for that matter.

A regulation becomes a legal rule. For example, a regulation issued by a local government or administrative agency becomes a legal rule. It becomes a restriction that has legal force.
Quote:
Regulations are also enforceable like laws but remain subordinate to them.

Yes, as in the case in point which you brought up. TSA attempted to override the law with their invalid regulation that was counter to that law. Describe how Clinton's failure to turn over ALL her emails is similar to McLean's case.
___________________________________________

Email Records Equivalent to Other Records:

In 1995, NARA amended the Code of Federal Regulations to confirm that “messages created or received on electronic mail systems may meet the definition of record.”

The regulations also referenced the use of electronic communications systems external to the Government, indicating that “agencies with access to external electronic mail systems shall ensure that Federal records sent or received on these systems are preserved in the appropriate recordkeeping system.”

A recordkeeping system is a manual or electronic system that captures, organizes, and categorizes records to facilitate their preservation, retrieval, use, and disposition.

The FAM adopted similar requirements in 1995, by providing in pertinent part that: all employees must be aware that some of the variety of the messages being exchanged on email are important to the Department and must be preserved; such messages are considered Federal records under the law.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/313803323/State-Dept-inspector-general-report-sharply-criticizes-Clinton-s-email-practices
__________________________________________

Now before you try to claim that Clinton turned over her emails:

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton withheld from the State Department several emails related to Libya, the State Department confirmed Thursday night — calling into question her insistence that she has handed over her complete public record.

The 2016 Democratic front-runner did not hand over 15 exchanges with longtime Clinton ally Sidney Blumenthal on the security situation in the Middle Eastern nation. The existence of the new correspondence only came to light days ago after Republicans subpoenaed the former Clinton White House adviser’s records and he turned them over
.

The chairman of the House committee, Trey Gowdy, Republican of South Carolina, said that many of the emails that Mrs. Clinton had not handed over showed that “she was soliciting and regularly corresponding with Sidney Blumenthal, who was passing unvetted intelligence information about Libya from a source with a financial interest in the country.”

“It just so happens these emails directly contradict her public statement that the messages from Blumenthal were unsolicited,” he said. Mr. Blumenthal identified the source of his information as Tyler Drumheller, a former high-ranking C.I.A. official, according to a person with knowledge of his testimony to the Benghazi panel. Mr. Drumheller was part of a group that sought to do business in Libya.

___________________________________________

And you never did respond to this . . . again:

Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—
__________________________________________________

Do you agree that "intent" is not a prerequisite when assessing gross negligence?


snood
 
  2  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2016 03:37 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:
So now let's get back to reality.


You'd better pack a lunch for that trip.
snood
 
  3  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2016 03:39 pm
When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

The evening of November 8th. Right after they call Florida and/or North Carolina for her.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  0  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2016 03:47 pm
@snood,
Quote:
You'd better pack a lunch for that trip.


And you'd need supplies for a week, at the very least.
snood
 
  2  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2016 03:55 pm
@Builder,
Builder wrote:

Quote:
You'd better pack a lunch for that trip.


And you'd need supplies for a week, at the very least.


Hey get your own joke premise.
But this is easy to take from someone whose best thinking nets the conclusion that Donald Trump is a rational choice. It's obvious your figurer-outer is broke.
 

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