30
   

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ? Part 2

 
 
Builder
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 02:49 pm
@snood,
Quote:
Well we could be like the tinfoil hat crowd....


Not sure where you're (not) looking, but it's all over the WWW, CI.

Even the morning Joe panel were talking about it.

While discussing Saturday night’s Democratic presidential debate, co-host Mika Brzezinski asked, “There isn’t really a nomination fight, is there? The way this is set up.”

Her co-host Joe Scarborough shook his head in agreement before saying to BBC’s Katty Kay, “If the Democrats, I think, for the first time in the history of modern politics – and I’m serious – you had a political party take every measure they could for Americans not to see their candidates.”

In fact, it's much like this whole election, in that it's completely polarised between trumpet and billary. The media isn't even talking about the other candidates.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 04:10 pm
@parados,
Quote:
Just throwing random **** still doesn't prove your "fact" that she violated US Code.

Well let's start here:

§ 3101. Records management by agency heads; general duties
The head of each Federal agency shall make and preserve records containing adequate and proper documentation of the organization, functions, policies, decisions, procedures, and essential transactions of the agency and designed to furnish the information necessary to protect the legal and financial rights of the Government and of persons directly affected by the agency’s activities.
_____________________________________________

Hillary Clinton was the head of the State Department. The 18 U.S. code, section 2071-B, states: "Whoever having the custody of any federal record, willfully and unlawfully conceals removes or destroys the same shall be fined or imprisoned or both" and listen -- "and shall be disqualified from holding any office under the United States."
_________________________________________

Hillary Clinton did not attempt to preserve her State business emails for the record. She left her position without having done so. When asked to turn them over, she decided which ones to turn over, and she based that decision on a key word search, after which she deleted 30,000 emails. Now it has come to light that classified information has passed through her unsecure email server. So your defense of Clinton is based on the fact that the senior most diplomatic official whose duty it was to make and preserve records, did not do so willfully. Even if that were true--and it's not--you still want to support her despite this demonstration of incompetence. But just for the sake of your failed argument, how does one go about deciding whether or not her incompetence was willful? By asking her? Wouldn't that be stupid?

Quote:
She turned them over.

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton withheld from the State Department several emails related to Libya, the State Department confirmed Thursday night — calling into question her insistence that she has handed over her complete public record.

The 2016 Democratic front-runner did not hand over 15 exchanges with longtime Clinton ally Sidney Blumenthal on the security situation in the Middle Eastern nation. The existence of the new correspondence only came to light days ago after Republicans subpoenaed the former Clinton White House adviser’s records and he turned them over.

Quote:
Second lie on your part is that those emails are now archived because they were turned over.

The chairman of the House committee, Trey Gowdy, Republican of South Carolina, said that many of the emails that Mrs. Clinton had not handed over showed that “she was soliciting and regularly corresponding with Sidney Blumenthal, who was passing unvetted intelligence information about Libya from a source with a financial interest in the country.”

It just so happens these emails directly contradict her public statement that the messages from Blumenthal were unsolicited,” he said. Mr. Blumenthal identified the source of his information as Tyler Drumheller, a former high-ranking C.I.A. official, according to a person with knowledge of his testimony to the Benghazi panel. Mr. Drumheller was part of a group that sought to do business in Libya.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/26/us/state-dept-gets-libya-emails-that-clinton-didnt-hand-over.html
____________________________________________

Clinton has said she cooperated with the House Benghazi Committee investigation by handing over all work-related communications, which she stored on her own personal server against official record-keeping rules.

This confirms doubts about the completeness of Clinton’s self-selected public record and raises serious questions about her decision to erase her personal server — especially before it could be analyzed by an independent, neutral third-party arbiter,” Benghazi panel Chairman Trey Gowdy said in a statement.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/hillary-clinton-didnt-turn-over-all-libya-emails-state-119453
____________________________________

So this exposes your lie that she turned over her emails.

And there's this:

The State Department's internal watchdog has found that many department employees are not preserving emails for the public record as required by the government. That could mean a substantial amount of lost government information.

The inspector general's office, in a report out Wednesday, said that in 2011, when Hillary Rodham Clinton was secretary of state, department employees wrote more than 1 billion emails but only marked 61,156 for the public record. There's no way to know from the figures how many should have been designated as public records. Even fewer were marked for public records, 41,749, in 2013, the year when she left the department.

Clinton is under scrutiny for using her personal email exclusively for official non-classified business during her tenure and for doing so with a private server. The new report does not address the use of personal email accounts, which the department discouraged employees from using in earlier guidance
.
______________________________________________

But we now know that Clinton used her own personal email server for classified information, don't we? Or are you still in the process of processing that information.

And you never did respond to this:

Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—
__________________________________________________

Do you agree that "intent" is not a prerequisite when assessing gross negligence?
parados
 
  2  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 04:11 pm
@Builder,
squirrel!!!!
reasoning logic
 
  -4  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 04:41 pm
@parados,
Quote:
squirrel!!!!


Penis breath!!!!
snood
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 06:24 pm
@parados,
I really don't think they got the squirrel reference...

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/49274723.jpg
glitterbag
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 06:29 pm
@snood,
Sometimes all you can do is shake your head.
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 06:41 pm
@glitterbag,
Quote:
Sometimes all you can do is shake your head.


What do you think about the Bernie or bust movement? What if Donald wins?



0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 07:02 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:

§ 3101. Records management by agency heads; general duties
The head of each Federal agency shall make and preserve records containing adequate and proper documentation of the organization, functions, policies, decisions, procedures, and essential transactions of the agency and designed to furnish the information necessary to protect the legal and financial rights of the Government and of persons directly affected by the agency’s activities.

Did you read that? It requires the head to make organization charts and policy goals, etc. It has nothing to do with emails.

Once again, you are just flailing about trying to throw out **** that has nothing to do with anything while pretending it shows something it clearly doesn't.

Quote:

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton withheld from the State Department several emails related to Libya, the State Department confirmed Thursday night — calling into question her insistence that she has handed over her complete public record.
Isn't it nice that you quote partisan reports and ignore the non partisan FBI statement?


The final result of all your bluster is you have no evidence that she violated US Code. Nothing from you. Nada. Just bullshit.
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 07:12 pm
@parados,
Quote:
The final result of all your bluster is you have no evidence that she violated US Code. Nothing from you. Nada. Just bullshit.


I know she has been given special privileges but can you think of anyone who has violated more ethical rules violation than Hitlary?

http://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibility/resources/lawyer_ethics_regulation/model_rules_for_lawyer_disciplinary_enforcement/preamble.html
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 07:31 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:
squirrel!!!!


Penis breath!!!!


What's wrong with penis breath? Is this an insult?
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 07:40 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

Lash wrote:

The Clinton campaign intentionally used their money and influence to push Trump to the top of the candidates for nomination.

So Hillary knew.


Let's assume that this is 100% true (huge assumption BTW).

My question to you is....so what?


[crickets...of course]
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 07:47 pm
The one person she ought to beat like a rug, but he is scaring the doodoo
out of her.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 07:51 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

The one person she ought to beat like a rug, but he is scaring the doodoo out of her.


Did she tell you that herself?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 07:52 pm
@parados,
http://www.snopes.com/homeland-security-indicts-hillary/
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 08:09 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

maporsche wrote:

Lash wrote:

The Clinton campaign intentionally used their money and influence to push Trump to the top of the candidates for nomination.

So Hillary knew.


Let's assume that this is 100% true (huge assumption BTW).

My question to you is....so what?


[crickets...of course]


Give her a minute! She's thinking!
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 08:31 pm
@parados,
Quote:
§ 3101. Records management by agency heads; general duties
The head of each Federal agency shall make and preserve records containing adequate and proper documentation of the organization, functions, policies, decisions, procedures, and essential transactions of the agency and designed to furnish the information necessary to protect the legal and financial rights of the Government and of persons directly affected by the agency’s activities.

You're being selective now. Did you deliberately omit the segment I've bolded? Yes you did.
Quote:
It has nothing to do with emails.

Office of the Secretary: Evaluation of Email Records Management and Cybersecurity Requirements:

The Federal Records Act requires appropriate management and preservation of Federal Government records, regardless of physical form or characteristics, that document the organization, functions, policies, decisions, procedures, and essential transactions of an agency. For the last two decades, both Department of State (Department) policy and Federal regulations have explicitly stated that emails may qualify as Federal records.
Quote:
Isn't it nice that you quote partisan reports and ignore the non partisan FBI statement?

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton withheld from the State Department several emails related to Libya, the State Department confirmed Thursday night — calling into question her insistence that she has handed over her complete public record.

So the State Department is a partisan report? Well how about this, then:

The Obama administration acknowledged Monday that the FBI found at least 14,900 more email messages former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton never turned over to the government, and officials are facing intense pressure to release them ahead of November’s election.

A federal judge ordered the State Department to speed up the process, and the Republican National Committee said the administration should strive to release an initial set of the secret emails within a month, or when the first states conduct early voting.

The existence of the emails marks yet more trouble for Mrs. Clinton, the Democratic presidential nominee, who insisted she turned over all of her work-related messages in December 2014.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/22/fbi-found-14000-new-hillary-clinton-emails/
_______________________________________________

Quote:
The final result of all your bluster is you have no evidence that she violated US Code.

That's right, you never did respond to this:

Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—
_______________________________________________

So, make your case that "intent" is a prerequisite to gross negligence according to the text above. And then explain how transmitting classified information on her unsecured personal email server is not gross negligence. Your argument seems to be, damn the facts, Comey knows best. But I've already posted this:

The decision to let Hillary Clinton off the hook for mishandling classified information has roiled the FBI and Department of Justice, with one person closely involved in the year-long probe telling FoxNews.com that career agents and attorneys on the case unanimously believed the Democratic presidential nominee should have been charged.

The source, who spoke to FoxNews.com on the condition of anonymity, said FBI Director James Comey’s dramatic July 5 announcement that he would not recommend to the Attorney General’s office that the former secretary of state be charged left members of the investigative team dismayed and disgusted. More than 100 FBI agents and analysts worked around the clock with six attorneys from the DOJ’s National Security Division, Counter Espionage Section, to investigate the case.

No trial level attorney agreed, no agent working the case agreed, with the decision not to prosecute -- it was a top-down decision,” said the source, whose identity and role in the case has been verified by FoxNews.com.

A high-ranking FBI official told Fox News that while it might not have been a unanimous decision, “It was unanimous that we all wanted her [Clinton’s] security clearance yanked.”

It is safe to say the vast majority felt she should be prosecuted,” the senior FBI official told Fox News. “We were floored while listening to the FBI briefing because Comey laid it all out, and then said ‘but we are doing nothing,’ which made no sense to us.”
__________________________________________________

WASHINGTON — Government investigators said Friday that they had discovered classified information on the private email account that Hillary Rodham Clinton used while secretary of state, stating unequivocally that those secrets never should have been stored outside of secure government computer systems.

Mrs. Clinton has said for months that she kept no classified information on the private server that she set up in her house so she would not have to carry both a personal phone and a work phone. Her campaign said Friday that any government secrets found on the server had been classified after the fact.

But the inspectors general of the State Department and the nation’s intelligence agencies said the information they found was classified when it was sent and remains so now. Information is considered classified if its disclosure would likely harm national security, and such information can be sent or stored only on computer networks with special safeguards.
____________________________________________

And there you have it. Gross negligence spelled out for you. Or are you going to claim it's a vast conspiracy. That's what I'd do.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 08:58 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:
You're being selective now. Did you deliberately omit the segment I've bolded? Yes you did.

Where are these emails at present if you are going to argue they are essential transactions of the agency. (AN argument that is specious at best.) I'll give you a hint, those records are currently archived by the government.

But you seem to ignore that this is not a criminal statute.

Quote:
Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton withheld from the State Department several emails related to Libya, the State Department confirmed Thursday night — calling into question her insistence that she has handed over her complete public record.

ROFLMAO.. and meanwhile the office of the Vice President under Dick Cheney lost 2 million emails and didn't turn them over to be archived.
Was that a crime? Was he investigated by the FBI for it?

Failure to turn over a few emails is hardly a crime because there is no law making it a crime.

Quote:
That's right, you never did respond to this:

Actually, I have responded to that on several occasions. It is you that has failed to respond. Let me post it again.

parados wrote:

Repeating the law and then failing to understand it only shows your ignorance. Let me make this simple for you.


So to recap, you need provide only the following simple things to meet the law.
1. name the item.
2. Tell us the proper place for the item.
3. tell us when or how the item was removed from it's proper place.
4. Show us that Clinton was responsible for the removal.

I'll color code the law for you...
Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2016 09:26 pm
@parados,
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/09/23/george-w-bush-white-house-lost-22-million-emails-497373.html

George W Bush White House lost 22 million emails.
Builder
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2016 12:20 am
@cicerone imposter,
From your link;

Quote:
Most troubling, researchers found a suspicious pattern in the White House email system blackouts, including periods when there were no emails available from the office of Vice President Dick Cheney. “That the vice president’s office, widely characterized as the most powerful vice president in history, should have no archived emails in its accounts for scores of days—especially days when there was discussion of whether to invade Iraq—beggared the imagination,” says Thomas Blanton, director of the Washington-based National Security Archive.


We know how corrupt that admin was. They all should be in prison for fraud.

This, however, does not set a precedent.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2016 12:49 am
@cicerone imposter,
You're a fan of snopes.com aren't you?

http://www.snopes.com/g-w-bush-lost-22-million-e-mails/

But, is this intended to make Clinton less guilty or something? I mean what's the point?
 

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