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Bush AWOL documents fake?

 
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 01:28 pm
Some of the challenges to Bush's Guard record are honest, and some are not. The same goes for challenges to Kerry's military record. If one allows that challenges may be made to Bush's record, one must allow challenges to be made to Kerry's. If one demands that all challenges to Kerry's record must stop, then one must make the same demand about challenges to Bush's record.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 01:53 pm
Funny that anyone would think that this vindicates the Swiftboaters.

[size=7]and back to my favourite question. Has Thurlow turned in his award yet?[/size]
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 01:57 pm
ehBeth wrote:
Funny that anyone would think that this vindicates the Swiftboaters.

[size=7]and back to my favourite question. Has Thurlow turned in his award yet?[/size]

Particularly since I never said that. Honest challenges are either okay for both or for neither, dishonest challenges are okay for neither.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 01:59 pm
JustWonders wrote:
As for the Swiftboat Vets, I and others have long believed that they earned this chance at vindication.
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 02:32 pm
ehBeth wrote:
Funny that anyone would think that this vindicates the Swiftboaters.

[size=7]and back to my favourite question. Has Thurlow turned in his award yet?[/size]


You see it as funny. I, along with millions, see it as...there is a God and He does love justice!
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 02:33 pm
What justice, exactly, would that be?

Cycloptichorn
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 02:34 pm
Just Wonders, regrettably - for you - the SwiftBoaters lies have not been justified.
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 02:39 pm
ehBeth - just as regrettably for you - millions think differently.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 02:45 pm
Think differently about what?

What was justified?

Cycloptichorn
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 02:49 pm
What people think is one thing. Facts are another, apparently.

And as timber has pointed out in the past - facts matter. And what does factcheck.org say (a site often referenced by timber) in regard to Swift Boats?

link




People need to be willing to face facts on all sides of a discussion, not just the one they prefer. Danger lies in avoiding the full truth.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 03:30 pm
Speaking of timber, replying to this post:

timberlandko wrote:
FactCheck pretty much says the SBVT allegations are disputed and largely unverified, while suffering from contraindication provided by anecodatal reference and by some oth the available documention. They do not "debunk" the SBVT claims, nor do they endorse them.

On the otherhand, their treatment of the "Bush Shirked" meme is notably less ambiguous. I can't take time to go chasin' around for 'em right now, but I believe I've posted links on this thread to the relevant FactCheck articles ... mebbe not, but I think I have. I'll check later, and one way or another, I'll try to toss ya the pertinent links. If I forget, somebofy remind me.

Or just go to www.factcheck.org on your own, and enter "AWOL" or "SBVT" into the searchbox.


here rather than on the "bookie" thread:

That assumes that the veracity of the memos is equivalent to the SBVfT thing. It's not. There is, again, much more to the story than the memos.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 03:33 pm
and when you're at factcheck - use swift boat or swift boat veterans in your search



gotta thank timber for that site. he didn't actually introduce me to it - but he sure made me learn how to use it Very Happy
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 03:35 pm
Yeah, I did hang that post on the wrong thread Embarrassed

Anyhow, The Memos play no part whatsoever in either of FactCheck's explicit dismissals of the "Bush Shirked" meme; the relevant FactCheck articles predate even the rumor of the existence of "The Memos" by months.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 03:39 pm
Fact Check seems to be at least a little imprecise, timber:

Quote:
The records show that National Guard officials credited Bush with enough points to meet minimum requirements for the 12-month period ending May 26, 1973, the period of the original alleged "gap" in his records.  An Air Force "Reserve Personnel Record Card" shows Bush received a total of 9 points for active duty training, 31 points for inactive duty training, and 15 points awarded for his membership in the reserves. The points total 56, exceeding the 50-point requirement for satisfactory service during the period, though barely.


The NYT article today shows that it was not, in fact, 56, and was perhaps 20 points less than that.

The NYT article facts may turn out to be wrong, but Factcheck may need to upgrade their assessment, too.

Will keep an eye on things.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 03:40 pm
factcheck does update things regularly. being on their email list helps keep up with the updates.
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A Lone Voice
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 03:42 pm
Re: fishin
Debra_Law wrote:
ROFL, fishin.

Not only do you claim the documents from the commander's file are forgeries---but they are such lousy forgeries than any idiot can identify them as forgeries. Hmmmm. You don't think the network brass and the producers of "60 Minutes" would have the documents authenticated by experts to cover their own @sses? Maybe the "60 Minutes" ought to pay you a retainer fee and keep you on their staff just to keep them on the up & up. ROFL


Hey Deb, where ya been? Smile

As you said, "ROLF"....................................
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 03:45 pm
Maybe there will be something in this for fishin? Maybe enough for a round? :wink:
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A Lone Voice
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 03:46 pm
PDiddie wrote:
FWIW, more typewriter history:

Quote:
The IBM Electric typewriters were a series of electric typewriters that IBM manufactured, starting in the late 1940s. They used the conventional moving carriage and hammer mechanism. Each model came in both Standard and Executive versions; the Executive differed in having a multiple escapement mechanism and four widths for letters, producing a near typeset quality result.

One model of the series was introduced in the late 1940s:
IBM Model A Two models of the series were introduced in the 1950s:
IBM Model B
IBM Model C One model of the series was introduced in the early 1970s:
IBM Model D Modified Standard versions of the A, B, and C models were commonly used as "console typewriters" or terminals on many early computers (e.g., JOHNNIAC, IBM 1620, PDP-1). Following the introduction of the IBM Selectric typewriter in 1961, which was much easier to interface to a computer, these typewriters were rarely used anymore as "console typewriters" or terminals.


This bit about "forgeries" is a patently ridiculous digression.


Not quite so ridiculous now, wouldn't you say Puffy?..............
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 03:48 pm
I hear ya, Soz, but as I read the pertinent NYT article, my assessment is they alledge, not demonstrate, unsatisfied service point requirements. There is and likely will continue to be difference of opinion for a while. All in all, The Voter doesn't seem to give much weight one way or another re either set of character assassination attempts. It is possible Rathergate might bring The Voter to more closely examine some things ... a development which likely would not work at all to the advantage of The Kerry Campaign.
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A Lone Voice
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 04:00 pm
For all the libs out there who were defending CBS/Dan Rather, I would like to ask you the following question?

Do you think that it is possible that Burkett and Democrat operative Ben Barnes coordinated the release of the documents with the Democratic National Committee's release of their "Operation Fortunate Son" campaign?

I pointed out this connection early on, as there are not many coincidences such as this in politics. Maybe the only DNC answer will be "We thought they were real too?"................
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