0
   

Bush AWOL documents fake?

 
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 09:13 am
http://www.bongonews.com/StoryImages/rather_cancelled.jpg

"I - did - not -have - textual - relations - with - those - documents!"
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 09:51 am
Heh, heh. Good one, T.

For a more completely researched account of what W was up to back then, check out today's NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/20/politics/campaign/20bama.html?hp
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 10:15 am
Wireservice, hot off the ticker, so no link yet ... but certain soon to be everywhere, though:
Quote:

BREAKING:

Mon Sep 20 2004 11:58:02 ET
STATEMENT FROM DAN RATHER:

"Last week, amid increasing questions about the authenticity of documents used in support of a 60 MINUTES WEDNESDAY story about President Bush's time in the Texas Air National Guard, CBS News vowed to re-examine the documents in question?-and their source?-vigorously. And we promised that we would let the American public know what this examination turned up, whatever the outcome.

Now, after extensive additional interviews, I no longer have the confidence in these documents that would allow us to continue vouching for them journalistically. I find we have been misled on the key question of how our source for the documents came into possession of these papers. That, combined with some of the questions that have been raised in public and in the press, leads me to a point where?-if I knew then what I know now?-I would not have gone ahead with the story as it was aired, and I certainly would not have used the documents in question.

But we did use the documents. We made a mistake in judgment, and for that I am sorry. It was an error that was made, however, in good faith and in the spirit of trying to carry on a CBS News tradition of investigative reporting without fear or favoritism.

Please know that nothing is more important to us than people's trust in our ability and our commitment to report fairly and truthfully."
End Statement
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 10:32 am
Speaking of being misled:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/2004/la-091704buckhead_lat,1,494535.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Blogger Who Faulted CBS Documents Is Conservative Activist


By Peter Wallsten, Times Staff Writer

WASHINGTON ?- It was the first public allegation that CBS News used forged memos in its report questioning President Bush's National Guard service ?- a highly technical explanation posted within hours of airtime citing proportional spacing and font styles.

But it did not come from an expert in typography or typewriter history as some first thought. Instead, it was the work of Harry W. MacDougald, an Atlanta lawyer with strong ties to conservative Republican causes who helped draft the petition urging the Arkansas Supreme Court to disbar President Clinton after the Monica Lewinsky scandal, the Times has found.

The identity of "Buckhead," a blogger known previously only by his screen name on the site freerepublic.com and lifted to folk hero status in the conservative blogosphere since last week's posting, is likely to fuel speculation among Democrats that the efforts to discredit the CBS memos were engineered by Republicans eager to undermine reports that Bush received preferential treatment in the National Guard more than 30 years ago.

Republican officials have denied any involvement among those debunking the CBS story.

Reached by telephone today, MacDougald, 46, confirmed that he is Buckhead, but declined to answer questions about his political background or how he knew so much about the CBS documents so fast.

"You can ask the questions but I'm not going to answer them," he told The Times. "I'm just going to stick to doing no interviews."

Until The Times identified him by piecing together information from his postings over the past two years, MacDougald had taken pains to remain in the shadows ?- saying the credit for challenging CBS should remain with the blogosphere as a whole and not one individual.

"Freepers collectively possess more analytical horsepower than the entire news division at CBS," he wrote in an e-mail, using the slang term for users of the freerepublic site.

MacDougald is a lawyer in the Atlanta office of the Winston-Salem, N.C.-based firm Womble Carlyle Sandridge & Rice and is affiliated with two prominent conservative legal groups, the Federalist Society and the Southeastern Legal Foundation, where he serves on the legal advisory board and has been involved in several high-profile cases.

Founded in 1976, the Southeastern Legal Foundation advocates "limited government, individual economic freedom, and the free enterprise system," according to its website.

The foundation has fought affirmative action and domestic partner benefits for government employees, and successfully challenged a Clinton administration plan to use proportional sampling, rather than a hard count, to estimate the population in the 2000 census.

MacDougald helped draft the foundation's petition in 1998 that led to the five-year suspension of Clinton's Arkansas law license for giving misleading testimony in the Paula Jones sexual harassment case.

And MacDougald assisted in the group's legal challenge to the campaign finance law sponsored by Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wis.). The challenge, ultimately presented to the U.S. Supreme Court, was funded largely by the Southeastern Legal Foundation in conjunction with Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), the law's chief critic, and handled by former Clinton investigator Kenneth W. Starr.

The Supreme Court upheld the law, which banned unlimited contributions from corporations to federal candidates and political parties.

The foundation was joined in its challenge by a cadre of groups that spanned the ideological spectrum, including the National Rifle Association and the American Civil Liberties Union.

MacDougald is also a Republican appointee to the Fulton County Board of Registration and Election.

Last week, MacDougald once again plunged into a politically charged controversy ?- but this time his participation was anonymous.

Operating as "Buckhead," which is also the name of an upscale Atlanta neighborhood, MacDougald wrote that the memos that CBS' "60 Minutes" presented on Sept. 8 as being written in the early 1970s by the late Lt. Col Jerry B. Killian were "in a proportionally spaced font, probably Palatino or Times New Roman."

"The use of proportionally spaced fonts did not come into common use for office memos until the introduction of laser printers, word processing software, and personal computers," MacDougald wrote on the freerepublic website. "They were not widespread until the mid to late 90's. Before then, you needed typesetting equipment, and that wasn't used for personal memos to file. Even the Wang systems that were dominant in the mid 80's used monospaced fonts.

"I am saying these documents are forgeries, run through a copier for 15 generations to make them look old. This should be pursued aggressively."

The Sept. 8 late-night posting ?- written less than four hours after the CBS report was aired ?- resulted in a flurry of sympathetic testimonials from fellow bloggers, spreading within hours to other sites. The next day, major newspapers such as The Times and the Washington Post began consulting forensic experts and reporting stories that raised similar questions.

CBS has insisted that the four memos, dated from 1972 and 1973, had been authenticated by the network's experts and by "close associates" of Killian, who confirm "that the documents reflect his opinions and actions at the time."

The memos showed Killian resisting pressure by a higher-up to "sugarcoat" Bush's performance evaluation and ordering Bush to take a physical examination so he could keep flying.

CBS has cited an expert, Bill Glennon, an information technology consultant, who said IBM electric typewriters that were in use in 1972 could provide proportional spacing and the superscript ?- the small "th" ?- evident in the disputed memos.

The network also has sought to counter the arguments by referring to a typewriting script distributor, who says the typing style in the memos has been available since 1931. Moreover, CBS points out, some of the lettering in question was evident in Bush's military records previously released by the White House.

Still, when Killian's former secretary came forward this week to say she did not believe the memos were authentic either, anchor Dan Rather and other network executives stopped asserting that the memos were real. They said they would "redouble" efforts to resolve unanswered questions.

While bloggers and some conservative activists hailed Buckhead as a hero in their longtime efforts to paint the mainstream media as politically biased, some Democrats and even some conservative bloggers have marveled at Buckhead's detailed knowledge of the memos and wondered whether that suggested a White House conspiracy.

Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe even speculated openly to reporters that the whole thing could have been orchestrated by White House political advisor Karl Rove. The Bush campaign called the allegation "nonsense."

MacDougald is an outspoken conservative and a Republican active in local politics.

"I attended a meeting on Tuesday to organize lawyers for Bush-Cheney in my state to monitor and, if necessary, litigate election issues," he told fellow "freepers" in a Buckhead posting last month.

As a lawyer, MacDougald has represented government waste whistle-blowers and has challenged affirmative action laws that give racial and ethnic minorities preferences in higher education.

He is not a big financial contributor to political causes, having donated $250 to the Georgia Republican Party in 2002, when Christian Coalition founder Ralph Reed was chairman. Reed is now a senior strategist for the Bush campaign.

Associates of MacDougald scoff at the notion that he was doing anything but acting alone when he offered his observations about the CBS memos.

"Harry is a very strong conservative and a very passionate conservative so if he sees something that looks fishy, he's going to say something about it," said Lynn Hogue, a Georgia State University law professor and former executive director of the Southeastern Legal Foundation.

"When he's not absorbed with work, I think he spends the rest of his life in the wee hours of the morning on freerepublic," Hogue added. "And that's the outlet through which he shares his concerns and insights, and so rather than being a matter of conspiracy, it's just him doing what he does."
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 10:34 am
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/kerry_navy_awards

WASHINGTON - The Navy's chief investigator concluded Friday that procedures were followed properly in the approval of Sen. John Kerry (news - web sites)'s Silver Star, Bronze Star and Purple Heart medals, according to an internal Navy memo.

Vice Adm. R.A. Route, the Navy inspector general, conducted the review of Kerry's Vietnam-ear military service awards at the request of Judicial Watch, a public interest group. The group has also asked for the release of additional records documenting the Democratic presidential candidate's military service.

Judicial Watch had requested in August that the Navy open an investigation of the matter, but Route said in an internal memo obtained by The Associated Press that he saw no reason for a full-scale probe.

"Our examination found that existing documentation regarding the Silver Star, Bronze Star and Purple Heart medals indicates the awards approval process was properly followed," Route wrote in the memo sent Friday to Navy Secretary Gordon England.

"In particular, the senior officers who awarded the medals were properly delegated authority to do so. In addition, we found that they correctly followed the procedures in place at the time for approving these awards."

Some veterans have challenged Kerry's version of the circumstances surrounding the incident that led to his Silver Star award for battlefield heroism, as well as his three Purple Heart medals.

The Silver Star was awarded for his actions in pursuit of enemy forces while commander of swift boat unit PCF-94 in Vietnam in February 1969.

Judicial Watch also asked the Navy inspector general to investigate Kerry's anti-war activities after he returned from Vietnam and left active duty.

The group's president, Tom Fitton, called Route's review a "whitewash" and said Judicial Watch would "appeal as appropriate."

"The Navy IG obviously is afraid of the political ramifications of a thorough investigation into a presidential candidate's service record," Fitton said in a statement.

Route concluded that there was no justification for looking further into the decisions to award the medals or the anti-war activities.

"Conducting any additional review regarding events that took place over 30 years ago would not be productive," he wrote. "The passage of time would make reconstruction of the facts and circumstances unreliable, and would not allow the information gathered to be considered in the context of the time in which the events took place.

"Our review also considered the fact that Senator Kerry's post-active duty activities were public and that military and civilian officials were aware of his actions at the time. For these reasons, I have determined that Senator Kerry's awards were properly approved and will take no further action in this matter."
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 10:37 am
re: The blogger article of Dook's

So who cares Dook? Does it matter what his politics are? He helped blow the whistle on a fraud being perpetrated on the public. I don't care if he were a communist. What he discovered and reported was correct, so I don't understand the need to point out that he is a republican.
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 10:38 am
Sure, CoastalRat...
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 10:41 am
Dookiestix wrote:
Sure, CoastalRat...


Brilliant comment, that Dook. So answer the question. Why does it matter? Unless of course you believe that all citizens should just bow down at the alter of News Media Reporting and worship all they say as truth and not question things, particularly those things that are anti-republican.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 10:46 am
Yeah, Dookie ... you figured it out ... it was Rove all along ... just one more dirty Republican trick perpetrated on the wholesome, truthloving Democrats.

On the otherhand, a different take would be that a gaggle of other-than-liberal denizens of the internet in a matter of minutes exposed an incredibly clumsy fraud on which Rather and CBS had gambled much, and, in so doing, the debunkers of the fraud have put end to the "Bush Shirked" meme. Right or wrong, the public is going to see any further promotion of the meme as mere partisan sniping.

And the legal ramifications have yet to come to play ... there's gonna be a buncha inconvenience to a buncha Bush detractors outta this ... bet on it. Burkett, Barnes, Rather, and crew have in a few days and with no expenditure done more damage to Kerry's prospects than has the entire Republican campaign machine and the Millions of dollars it has spent over the past year.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 10:49 am
BTW ... all the Navy Inspector General said was that the paperwork filed was filed according to then-proper procedure. The paperwork was done right. Nothing was said regarding the accuracy of the the paperwork regarding the relevant incidents.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 11:01 am
On its website, CBS just wrote:
CBS Regrets Bush Memos Story ... In a statement, CBS said former Texas Guard official Bill Burkett "has acknowledged that he provided the now-disputed documents" and "admits that he deliberately misled the CBS News producer working on the report, giving her a false account of the documents' origins to protect a promise of confidentiality to the actual source ... "


CBS seems to be proposing "Burkett fingered as the fallguy. We were duped. Its over. Get over it." ... hmmmmm .... somehow, I doubt the sharks are gonna settle for that. There's blood in the water, and the feeding frenzy is just getting under way.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 11:02 am
Was there supposed to be anything 'new' in those documents? No? Just confirmation of old news. That's certainly how factcheck seems to be looking at this.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 11:18 am
Exactly. The lies didn't work four years ago and they're not working now.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 11:20 am
amazing
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 11:51 am
This is what I've been looking for:

Quote:
Although missed drills can be made up, regulations at the time said it had to be done within 30 days and in the same fiscal year. As the time for his early discharge neared, Mr. Bush was lacking enough points; according to records for July 1973, he attended drills on 18 days that month.

When questions arose about Mr. Bush's Guard service, the White House asked a retired Air Force lieutenant colonel, Albert C. Lloyd Jr., to review his record. In a memorandum released by the White House in February, Mr. Lloyd wrote that from May 1973 through May 1974, Mr. Bush accumulated 35 training points and 15 points for being a Guard member "for a total of 56 points.'' It is not clear how Mr. Lloyd came up with 56, instead of 50. Another military document released by the White House indicates that Mr. Bush had earned only 38 points from May 1973 until his discharge that October.

A retired Army colonel, Gerald A. Lechliter, who has prepared an extensive analysis of Mr. Bush's National Guard record, described Mr. Lloyd's memorandum as "seemingly an attempt to whitewash Bush's record." Mr. Lloyd declined comment last week.

Mr. Lechliter, who describes himself as a political independent, also said that Mr. Bush was not entitled to 20 credits he received from Nov. 13, 1972, until July 19, 1973, because the service was being made up improperly.

Mr. Lechliter also said that Mr. Bush should not have been paid for these sessions. "That would appear to be a fraud," he said in an interview last week.


(From the NYT link -- thanks, D'art.)
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 11:53 am
JW, as I just said elsewhere, whatever attempts at explaining this 4 years ago were made without the benefit of records that were released by the White House this year.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 12:08 pm
Of course, challenging Kerry's military service is immoral.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 12:12 pm
Challenging it? No. Smearing, yes. The difference? Factual content.

Meanwhile, I realize this goes around and around and around, and I have gone on record saying that I think BOTH (SBVfT, ANG questions) are immaterial and don't matter a whit to me in terms of who I will vote for and why. But if SBVfT was treated so credibly, and so many people talked about "yes but it shows his character and character matters to me", it's pretty hard to say this isn't relevant.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 12:13 pm
It IS immoral.

Why? Because the vast majority of those challenging his service record actually have a problem with his post war activities; but instead of attacking him on that, they try to paint the man as a traitor during the war, because it makes him look a lot worse than just yelling at him for protesting the war.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2004 01:24 pm
Believe it or not, not everyone believes what's printed in the NYT. The Democrats tried this tack four years ago and it was largely ignored then, as now.

As for the Swiftboat Vets, I and others have long believed that they earned this chance at vindication. Even if not everything they have said is believed by everyone, their right to finally be heard is long overdue.

God bless them.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2026 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 03/02/2026 at 12:17:52