Why Obamacare is a Failure

@Miller,

Quote:

How many were on food stamps when Obama was President?

What does this question have to do with the topic?

0 Replies

@ossobucotemp,

It's not the food stamp issue that is important to our country; it's Trump and his heartless, bigoted soul. Food stamp is only one of many things he will destroy. It's only the beginning. Don't you get it?
He's already working to change the tax code to help the wealthy, and hurt the middle class and poor. All the changes he's planning to make are to reduce the social services that were gained since 1935.
http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-essential-washington-updates-trump-budget-envisions-big-cuts-for-1489664310-htmlstory.html
He's also working to increase taxes for the middle class.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2016/11/27/some-middle-class-trump-plan-would-mean-tax-increase/94427186/

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Food stamps are humiliating, they infantilise the poor, saying they're not responsible enough to handle money. Benefits should be paid in cash.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

I half agree with you — there is a stigma about using food stamps. But there are problems with supplying recipients with cash. For one thing, cash offers a great temptation for assaults and muggings in poor communities. And there's nothing to dissuade recipients from using the cash to buy soda, candy, cigarettes, and alcohol. Ultimately the endemic causes of poverty must be addressed anyway — welfare and food stamps merely maintain the status quo.

1 Reply

@hightor,

There's nothing to dissuade anyone from spending their money on fags, booze and sweets. Why should the poor be treated any differently from others, they are adults?

2 Replies

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

There's nothing to dissuade anyone from spending their money on fags, booze and sweets. Why should the poor be treated any differently from others, they are adults?

I will attempt an honest answer.

When I go to the local grocery store, I sometimes get behind someone that "looks poor". I have no problem with poor people and I sympathize with their plight. I've been in their shoes and I understand the stigma of appearing poor in America.

I see them put up the milk, diapers, bread and other essential sundries on the conveyor and then I see them put on the little divider. Then they place the beer, the cigarettes and junk food. The cashier rings up the first items and the person gives them their EBT card (EBT is used in all states to issue food stamp benefits to recipients.) Meanwhile, I see them using their iPhone to text someone while their miscellaneous children misbehave around their parent.

The second bunch of groceries are rung up and then they will pull out a wad of cash and pay (This does not necessarily always happen, but happens enough that I am able to comment on it.) and pay for the junk EBT wouldn't cover.

My issue with this is if you have enough cash to pay for an expensive cell phone and junk food and beer, why are you receiving EBT? Use your cash to pay for the milk and diapers and "healthy" foods and leave the crap at the store.

The poor shouldn't be treated differently than others. They should be expected to pay their bills and not rely on the charity of the govt.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Quote:

Why should the poor be treated any differently from others, they are adults?

The government issues plenty of warnings and regulations concerning unhealthy habits and recommends nutritious food sources. It would be irresponsible to directly subsidize the consumption of poor food and tobacco. Most people on government programs have other income sources anyway and they can spend these funds as they wish. If they're really "adults" they they ought to be able to accept that the benefit they receive comes with certain restrictions on how the money is spent.

1 Reply

@hightor,

I don't see it like that. Over here people on benefits receive cash. Anything else is seen as stigmatising. The few exceptions, and they are very few, will be if a doctor or social worker has specifically requested it.

You can't budget properly if you're not given responsibility.

I suspect the real reason is that certain retailers are making a lot of money out of the food stamps system, and those same retailers make political donations. If it was in place over here claimants would be forced to go to certain supermarkets instead of buying their food at stalls in the market which is much cheaper. It's just plain wrong.

0 Replies

@McGentrix,

Benefits aren't charity, they're a right. Your terminology shows ingrained prejudice. All sorts of people end up out of work and even homeless, nobody is immune from a run of really bad luck.

Mobile phones aren't that expensive, and if you're seeking work they're pretty much an essential item.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Benefits aren't charity, they're a right. Your terminology shows ingrained prejudice. All sorts of people end up out of work and even homeless, nobody is immune from a run of really bad luck.

Mobile phones aren't that expensive, and if you're seeking work they're pretty much an essential item.

Maybe a right in the UK, but not in the US. Also, iPhones are very expensive compared to something like a tracfone or cricket. I am not saying that poor people shouldn't have things like phones or money or booze or cigarettes. But, I question their need for benefits when they have better things than I do and I work for my money.

1 Reply

@McGentrix,

I doubt they really have better things than you do. You're sounding a bit like that Republican politician who said people should forego an iphone to pay for health insurance when most health cover cost the equivalent of 30 iphones.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Debating UHC is like trying to debate the need for Society, the State, or Civilization and the Social contract. The best way to educate these guys would be to immediatly tak'em out of all State benefits from free security, police, firefighting, up to access to roads, tap water n power supply.
Next send them to a pacific island with a knife some supplies spread some cameras around n enjoy the best Big Brother ever...
In this day n age cutting them off the web would be enough, although, prolly they wouldn't get it for lack of IQ...

2 Replies

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Debating UHC is like trying to debate the need for Society, the State, or Civilization and the Social contract. The best way to educate these guys would be to immediatly tak'em out of all State benefits from free security, police, firefighting, up to access to roads, tap water n power supply.
Next send them to a pacific island with a knife some supplies spread some cameras around n enjoy the best Big Brother ever...
In this day n age cutting them off the web would be enough, although, prolly they wouldn't get it for lack of IQ...

Is someone debating UHC? It looked like the discussion was about food stamps. I pay city, town, county, state and federal taxes for such things as security, police, fire fighting, roads, tap water, sewer and such things. I also pay a monthly utility bill. Are thses things that I should be getting for free?!

Guess I am living in the wrong country! Where do you live that you get these things for free Fil?

As an Eagle Scout and an avid prepper and hunter, I am pretty sure I could do just fine on an island. Probably better than most.

2 Replies

@Fil Albuquerque,

They were daft enough to vote for Trump so yes. You have to credit the ruling classes in America for managing to turn out such a supine electorate, one that constantly votes against its own interests and in favour of their masters.

And they think they're free, poor delusional fools.

2 Replies

@McGentrix,

That's what you want is it? To live in the woods and eat squirrels? Such lofty ambitions.

1 Reply

@McGentrix,

We copy cats...you don't have a freeking clue what you get for free or nearly free starting up with information...hence my reference to cutting ppl like you off the web.
Your perception of the State and Social contract complexity is deplorable.

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

We copy cats...you don't have a freeking clue what you get for free or nearly free starting up with information...hence my reference to cutting ppl like you off the web.
Your perception of the State and Social contract complexity is deplorable.

Well, please explain to me all the things I get for free. I am very interested to know.

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

That's what you want is it? To live in the woods and eat squirrels? Such lofty ambitions.

Not if I don't have to. My bed is very comfy and I like my fridge. The store is much easier to get food in as well.

But, if something were to happen and I absolutely HAD to, I could probably manage.

1 Reply

@McGentrix,

So that's alright then. What about those who are too old, too sick, too young to manage? **** them, you're alright.

2 Replies

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

So that's alright then. What about those who are too old, too sick, too young to manage? **** them, you're alright.

In what case? Like a zombie outbreak or something? Or do you mean just in general?

The old should have saved up enough to retire and pay for assisted living. The too sick? Like stage 5 cancer patients? They should have health insurance or live in a country that has some kind of universal health care. Too young? Where are their parents?

Why do you think I should be responsible for other people? Am I supposed to run a hospital with a day care and soup kitchen? Do you do those things?

I am not sure why you think that people shouldn't have some kind of personal responsibility.

2 Replies

Why Obamacare is a Failure

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know