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Rising fascism in the US

 
 
Lash
 
  0  
Wed 25 Jul, 2018 10:05 am
@izzythepush,
You have his temperament...
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 25 Jul, 2018 10:13 am
@izzythepush,
He's a Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg (the Dano-German branch of the House of Oldenburg). And from the mother's side a von Battenberg, Wink
izzythepush
 
  2  
Wed 25 Jul, 2018 11:02 am
@Lash,
Not his racism nor his Greek heritage.

Your analogy doesn't work, nationality is not the same as political/religious beliefs. Unless you move to a different country and become a citizen you can't change it, and even then first generation immigrants still see themselves as having their original nationality if not their rights as citizens.

People don't prefix every response they make to you with a sentence disputing your political beliefs.

You talk as if you're being picked on, as if such comments were without foundation but they're not.

Firstly you admitted voting for Bush twice, that's quite a right wing position to start from, especially as the second time he'd already allowed 9/11 to happen then started an illegal war. I'm not saying people don't change politics, they do, but normally in their teens/early 20s not in middle age.

Let's give you the benefit of the doubt, which I have been doing, and say your conversion is genuine, that doesn't explain your current behaviour. You're very friendly and chatty with Layman, a blackface racist who posts transphobic bigotry, someone I find beyond the pale, yet you're extremely confrontational towards Revelette someone with whom I have some ideological differences but whose heart is definitely in the right place.

Like the saying goes if it looks like a duck.. You may occasionally say quack but you don't look walk or talk like one.

I would love to believe what you say about your conversion to progressive politics but I can't see anything substantial that proves it. What I have seen is an attack on most left of centre posters, a cosying up to the right wing ones and a determination to split the Democrat party.

When the gang of four left the Labour Party to form the SDP it gave us five terms of Tory Government, and splitting the anti Republican vote will keep them in power until the 2030s at least.

From here it looks as if that is what you want.

0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 25 Jul, 2018 11:03 am
@Walter Hinteler,
We still call him Paddy the Greek. In Vanuatu he's worshipped as a god.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Wed 25 Jul, 2018 11:12 am
This post is a case in point.

Lash wrote:

This seems to be the most efficient, provable path to Trump’s removal to me. I don’t understand why it’s taken so long.

However, know this. Democrats need to be investigated, removed, and punished, as well.


Why in a post about Trump did you feel the need to bring up the Democrats at all? You give the impression that they're all as bad as each other, when Trump is the most extreme, divisive, racist, self interested president in post war politics if not ever. He's not just another Republican president, he's a dangerous lunatic who's most likely in the pocket of a hostile foreign power.
glitterbag
 
  4  
Wed 25 Jul, 2018 11:28 am
@Olivier5,
I don't know, It worries me sick how much we don't know or how deep his treachery runs. However, the intelligence community is incredibly thorough and my money is on them to button it up and secure sources and methods.
ehBeth
 
  4  
Wed 25 Jul, 2018 11:51 am
@glitterbag,
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jul/08/madeleine-albright-fascism-is-not-an-ideology-its-a-method-interview-fascism-a-warning

definitely asking our library system to bring in more copies of her book - the wait list is long

from the middle

Quote:
“Defining fascism is difficult,” she responds. “First of all, I don’t think fascism is an ideology. I think it is a method, it’s a system.”

It is in his methods that Trump can be compared with, if not precisely likened to, the dictators of the 1930s. Fascists are typically masters of political theatre. They feed on and inflame grievances by setting “the people” against their “enemies”. Fascists tell their supporters that there are simple fixes for complex problems. They present as national saviours and conflate themselves with the state. They seek to subvert, discredit and eliminate liberal institutions. She reminds us that they have often ascended to power through the ballot box and then undermined democracy from within. She is especially fond of a Mussolini quote about “plucking a chicken feather by feather” so that people will not notice the loss of their freedoms until it is too late.


In her book, Trump is one nasty plucker. She labels him “the first anti-democratic president in modern US history”. Those Trumpians who know their history might retort that previous American presidents have been accused of being enemies of democracy, including some who have become the most revered holders of the office. Abraham Lincoln was charged with tyranny by his opponents during the civil war. So was Franklin D Roosevelt when he was implementing the New Deal.

Trump is different, she insists. Look at his attacks on the institutions of liberal society as he Twitter-lashes the judiciary and the media. “Outrageous,” says Albright. “It was Stalin who talked about the press being the enemy of the people.

“I also think Trump does act as though he’s above the law.” He lies without shame, she says. He threatens to jail political competitors. He foments bigotry. He lavishes admiration on autocrats like Putin and by doing so encourages the worldwide drift to authoritarianism. Observe also, she adds, how Trump exploits a crowd.

“He uses rallies in a strange way. We all, most of us that are public people, have somebody interrupting our speeches. There’s always somebody yelling something. And the question is: what do you do about it? Sometimes people are just escorted out or you don’t pay any attention to it. What is fascinating in watching Trump is he loves the people yelling and he uses them so that it looks as though he is having conversations with the people on TV. Trump is, I think he’s actually really smart – evil smart, is what I think.”

The founding fathers endowed the US with a constitution that was forged to protect the country from leaders with tyrannical impulses. America has survived some dreadful presidents. When Trump is gone, does she not think it possible that we will eventually look back on him not as a crypto-dictator, but as an embarrassing spasm?

“In the book I write that there are people who say this is alarmist. It is. That’s the purpose. I’m concerned about complacency about it. This is a very deliberate warning.”

The fear that Trump induces in American liberals is matched by the alarm he arouses among the United States’ traditional allies in the democracies. From Nato to the World Trade Organisation, he threatens to rip up institutions that have ordered the planet over many decades. Albright argues that the doctrine of “America First”, which “conceives of the world as a battlefield in which every country is intent on dominating every other”, encourages a Darwinian competition of tribal nationalisms. During her time as Washington’s chief diplomat, Albright was an unabashed exponent of America as the global beacon of liberty: “the indispensable nation”, as she once called her country. Should Europeans conclude that Trumpian America has become an unreliable ally? Regretfully, she agrees.


“At the moment, it is hard to say to any European that the US is a reliable ally, which makes me furious because I do believe in the importance of American engagement. I always thought we were reliable.”


and the end

Quote:
“The things that are happening are genuinely, seriously bad. Some of them are really bad. They’re not to do with Trump; it is the evolution of a number of different trends. All the various problems that we have, they can’t be solved by simple slogans. But it’s easier to listen to some simple slogan.”

Albright is far from alone in worrying about the future of liberal democracy. This anxiety is felt more acutely by a woman who was born in the time of Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin, who reached the peaks of international diplomacy when freedom seemed ascendant and has since observed the unravelling of so much hope. At the end of our conversation, I am left unsure whether she thinks democracy has the resilience to survive this testing time.

“You ask if I’m an optimist or a pessimist,” she responds. “I am an optimist who worries a lot.”
Lash
 
  -1  
Wed 25 Jul, 2018 11:52 am
@izzythepush,
Because I hate corruption, and DC is rife with it. I believe Bill Clinton is a rapist, that the Clinton Foundation is a money laundering slush fund for pay for play political favors, and Hillary Clinton is a complete fraud.

They are overdue for justice.

The same is true to lesser degrees for all but a few in politics.

That’s why.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Wed 25 Jul, 2018 12:00 pm
@Lash,
Talk about it elsewhere. By mentioning corruption in the same breath as Trump's treachery you're conflating the two. In effect you're ameliorating Trump's behaviour. That's not something a true opponent of Trump.

There is no comparison between Clinton's alleged corruption and Trump's alleged treachery and clear bigotry and racism, not to mention all his lies. I know all politicians lie, but no way near to that extent and not such stupid lies that contradict each other and are so easy to disprove.

In short if you want people to think you're really anti Trump you'll stop talking about the Clintons on a Trump thread. Leave the Killarying, outlandish cartoons and weird conspiracy videos to the likes of Gunga Bunga and Pinky.
Lash
 
  -1  
Wed 25 Jul, 2018 12:04 pm
@izzythepush,
I think you have a lot of nerve telling me what I can say and where I can say it.

Unless and until I’m thrown out of here, I’ll say what I choose where I choose.

Shame on you.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Wed 25 Jul, 2018 12:48 pm
@Lash,
I didn't tell you what you could say or where you could say it. I told you what you needed to say if you really wanted people to think your politics had changed.

As it is, your constant referencing of the Clintons, like Trump's, seems designed to deflect criticism away from him.

You can't have it both ways. You can't keep parroting the Whitehouse's press releases and then expect anyone to think you're anything other than a, (not so,) closet Trump supporter.

If that's what you want to do fair enough, just don't expect any sympathy when you start claiming that everyone is misjudging you so.
Olivier5
 
  4  
Wed 25 Jul, 2018 01:16 pm
@Lash,
The Clintons are history. Let them go already.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Wed 25 Jul, 2018 01:24 pm
@izzythepush,
That’s fine. The people who are creating false narratives about me can expect the same.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Wed 25 Jul, 2018 01:35 pm
@Lash,
They're not false, they're based on observation. If you think spreading lies about other people increases your credibility then go ahead.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  2  
Wed 25 Jul, 2018 01:54 pm
@ehBeth,
You're on topic.

I hope I don't have to mention this again.
coluber2001
 
  1  
Wed 25 Jul, 2018 02:10 pm
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Wed 25 Jul, 2018 02:30 pm
@roger,
I tried eh
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  3  
Wed 25 Jul, 2018 04:15 pm
@Lash,
Isnt it a bitch lash when everyone on this site has your number. Can't get away with even one untruth like the rest of the conservatives on this site.
Lash
 
  -1  
Wed 25 Jul, 2018 05:47 pm
@RABEL222,
It is a bitch to see people here who I used to think were liberal lions, genuinely concerned about the day to day life of people with fewer resources, are actually frauds, who are actively withholding a decent chance in this country from their struggling neighbors.

That’s definitely been the worst thing that’s happened to me.

Other than that, I’m happy to be on the right side of things now.

And able to spell.

RABEL222
 
  3  
Thu 26 Jul, 2018 12:13 am
@Lash,
I would ask you to explain your last post but my inability spell would keep me from understanding your explanation.
0 Replies
 
 

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