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Rising fascism in the US

 
 
Lash
 
  0  
Thu 5 Apr, 2018 06:49 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I think Trump ‘s behavior and that of Bezos are two completely different discussions.

I think Trump is acting in his own self-interest: we can go ahead and agree on that.

I think what Bezos is gathering to himself — and the wide-reaching implications for ‘the working class’ in America, ‘journalism’, and American society—- is legitimately chilling.

You don’t need to argue anything about Trump re Bezos. I’ll concede the worst ideas about Trump to avoid wasting time ignoring what Bezos is doing.
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  2  
Fri 6 Apr, 2018 07:24 am
Quote:
Opinion: Why I’m suing for my right to flip off the president

One sunny Saturday last fall, I hopped on my bike and headed out for a ride near my home in Virginia. President Trump decided to spend some time outdoors that day, too, at the golf course he owns, not far from my biking route. Our paths crossed on Lowes Island Boulevard. As his motorcade sped by, I extended my middle finger in a brief and almost reflexive expression of my frustration with his mean-spirited and narrow-minded politics.

Three days later, I lost my job.

A wire service photographer covering Trump captured the gesture, and a Voice of America reporter posted the photo online. It went viral. The next evening, I used the photo as the background on my personal Facebook and Twitter accounts, neither of which mentioned where I worked. But after the weekend, I did let my employer, Akima, know that I was the cyclist in the picture.

While acknowledging that the First Amendment protected my right to extend my middle finger, my boss told me that “corporate protection” dictated that he terminate me on the grounds of a social media policy that prohibits “obscene” or “inappropriate” content. ­Akima does business with the government, and company executives obviously feared that the Trump administration would (unconstitutionally) penalize my employer for my gesture. So, that Tuesday, they forced me out.

The First Amendment bars retaliation against me by Trump. But Trump doesn’t need to punish me for my speech if fear of him spurs my employer to do it. And a private employer can’t suppress my freedom of expression on my own time out of fear of illegal government retaliation without violating Virginia employment law, which is why I filed a lawsuit against my former employer this week.

I am not alone in having my ability to make a living threatened by my desire to exercise my right to free speech. No one who follows football thinks that all 50 quarterbacks signed by NFL teams in the past year are more talented than Colin Kaepernick. The president’s relentless attacks on Kaepernick’s refusal to stand for the national anthem created an environment in which many teams were reluctant to sign him and risk a backlash that could hurt their bottom line. Now Eric Reid, one of the first to join Kaepernick’s protest, is facing speculation that the salary he can draw as a free agent is reduced because he engaged in political dissent.

These are the stories that have made news, but this facilitation of speech suppression is creeping throughout the private sector. Take, for example, Protect Democracy, the nonpartisan, nonprofit organization helping me bring my lawsuit. Members of the group have told me that their mission — preventing a slide to a more authoritarian form of government — has made it difficult for them to rent office space in Cambridge, Mass.; landlords, they say, fear retaliation from the federal government.

This sort of behavior is familiar to people living in Egypt, Hungary, Thailand, Turkey and Russia, where the ability to do business increasingly depends on being seen as favorable to the regime. As a result, companies in each of these countries do not hire or do business with known dissenters. And that pressure — making citizens choose between their pocketbooks and their principles — starts a downward spiral that ultimately dismantles a democracy.

Let’s call this “autocratic capture.” Autocratic capture is not new to the world, but it is new to this country, and it is up to all of us to keep it from taking root. Our democracy depends on it. As James Madison warned in the early days of the United States, the “value and efficacy” of free elections “depends” on Americans’ “equal freedom” to examine the “merits and demerits of the candidates.” But if Americans can keep their jobs only when they refrain from criticizing the president, then that freedom is lost. And once the freedom to speak is lost, then the rest of our constitutional rights will not be far behind.


WP
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  2  
Fri 6 Apr, 2018 07:31 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I agree, not only that he is activily promoting Sinclair which is nothing more than a propaganda machine for the current government which is Trump.

Quote:
Trump had steered clear of talking about Sinclair, but that changed Monday, when he tweeted that it’s “so funny” to see criticism of Sinclair from other media outlets, arguing that the company is “far superior to CNN and even more Fake NBC, which is a total joke."


Politico

Speaking of which:

Sinclair producer resigns over company's 'obvious' pro-Trump bias, as staffers across the country voice concern
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Fri 6 Apr, 2018 07:34 am
If that chick had been stopped by the muscle in the motorcade, questioned by law enforcement afterwards, arrested, harassed by any branch of our government, I’d be on her side, but this is the other side of the Laura Ingraham coin.

Both women have likely lost their jobs because of their opinions. You can’t credibly support one outcome and not the other.

It happens.

Most teachers have private or other-named Facebook/ social media accounts because they know they can lose jobs based on how the public responds to their opinions/ personal behavior.
revelette1
 
  3  
Fri 6 Apr, 2018 07:41 am
@Lash,
Figures you once again do not see a pattern of authoritarian behavior on the part of Trump and now ordinary people fear of him resulting in stifling free speech. I hope she wins her lawsuit she has the law of Virginia on her side which was the point of my bolding that section in the article.

Lash
 
  1  
Fri 6 Apr, 2018 08:21 am
She (her case) has to prove fear of Trump directly caused her firing.

She likely has a signed employment contract, like most of us do, that outlines behaviors that result in firing.

maxdancona
 
  1  
Fri 6 Apr, 2018 08:33 am
@revelette1,
Google fired James Damore. Most people on the liberal side of the spectrum cheered.

Explain how these two cases are different (other than the opposite side of the political spectrum). If you support the firing of James Damore, I don't see how you can justify being upset at this firing.

"Anyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi".
revelette1
 
  2  
Fri 6 Apr, 2018 08:53 am
@maxdancona,
I haven't a clue who James Damore or what he was fired for. I don't really care as it is not the point. On both sides, it was free citizens making their own choices. No government involved.

For better or worse Trump is the President, he is the government. Trump's bullying tweets are very insidious as they seem to have a rippling effect and effectively stifles free speech. Trump is different than a company or a political group or a popular feeling by people over a particular issue, he is in position of great authority. In this country we are supposed to feel free to voice our dissent with our government. If companies fear retaliation from Trump in various underhanded ways (awarded or denied federal contracts and/or funds from the government) and that fear results in citizens not being allowed to exercise their dissent with the government (which in this case is Trump) then we are going down a dangerous road like other authoritarian countries we decry.

I don't word things as good as others, but that is my view on it.
revelette1
 
  1  
Fri 6 Apr, 2018 08:59 am
@Lash,
The contract can't supersede the law. I am sure she is aware of her own contract if she has one.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Fri 6 Apr, 2018 09:11 am
@revelette1,
You seem to be conflating tweets with "awarding or denying contracts". If Trump is "awarding or denying contracts" based on people's opinions... that would be a breech of power.

I don't think early morning Tweets are even in the same category. Some people have cherished getting attacked by Trump. I am curious, if a Senator attacks citizens for expressing an opinion she doesn't like... is that in the same category? Or is the president special.

My assertion is that both sides do this (although Trump is an extreme case, but there are certainly liberal Senators who are comparable). The outrage from liberals is only against conservatives.

Liberal politics in 2018 is a politics of outrage. Calling people Nazis is just part of this.


0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  2  
Fri 6 Apr, 2018 09:54 am
@maxdancona,
Trump violates ethics and norms each and every day. He profits off his own presidency through his hotels and golf clubs. His tweets coming from the highest office in our country, are intimidating and they result in real actions. Take the NFL controversy. That resulted in real consequences. The company the woman in the article I referenced works for a company which deals with the government. Of course the company would be cautious Trump might unconstitutionally not award a contract and claim it is for other reasons. Trump is not a normal president, republican or democrat doesn't really matter.

Being against 'outrageous' doesn't mean every topic under Trump is just liberals being against republicans. If he left the office we would be left with a more conservative tight wad than Trump could ever be. But at least he would be a normal extreme conservative 'Christian' President. Trump ain't normal.

BTW, I haven't called anyone a Nazi. Being hyperbolic don't help much.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Fri 6 Apr, 2018 10:18 am
@revelette1,
You are in a thread called "Rising Fascism in the US" supporting Setanta et. al. who are twisting history to support an ideological narrative. The whole premise of this thread is that Trump and his supporters are "fascist". Ironically, four years ago there were threads on whether Obama was "fascist".

I have no problem with you saying that his tweets and his business deals are signs of a uniquely inept and unethical president. I agree with you.

It is wrong to cherry-pick facts to compare even a particularly hated opposition figure with Fascists. It was wrong when they did this to Obama (even though Obama, like the fascists thrilled people with oratory skills and was put into office by organizing youth). It is wrong when they do this to Trump (even though he appeals to patriotism and complains about the press). With enough time to google the internet for the correct "facts", you can turn anyone into a Nazi.

It is particularly troubling to see people in on the left complaining about free speech being curtailed. The left is stamping out the expression of ideas by putting up barriers for demonstrations by conservatives, blocking speakers from campuses, threatening people on social media, and calling for people to be fired for expression opinions.


revelette1
 
  4  
Fri 6 Apr, 2018 11:31 am
@maxdancona,
You must not have refreshed yourself by looking back to the beginning of this thread started by Lash talking about the unfair press swaying the public against Trump being fascist. You must have also ignore and forgotten your own response which disagreed with Lash's started post to this thread.

Quote:
Might as well call it what it is.

For your consideration: http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/14007-no-actually-this-is-what-a-fascist-looks-like

I don't want Donald Trump elected to dogcatcher, but this shite perpetrated by The Boston Globe is inexcusable and the people who had administrative control over this rag should be fired. This is clear propaganda meant to sway political opinions by a "newspaper." Amazing this can happen in this country.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2016/presidential-election-headquarters?intcmp=subnav

Meanwhile, our news media blacked out mention of Bernie for months as he ran for the presidency, ensuring as few people as possible would hear about him - as if they - the media - were on Hillary's payroll. There have been several massive rallies and protests, such as the one that's happening right now in DC, that the media intentionally blacked out. Smells like China.
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/why-ny-times-basically-doing-blackout-bernie-sanders

I'm also concerned about the fact that Edward Snowden is the one who had to run for his life instead of the administration officials regarding what Snowden dropped to the public. Why in hell hasn't some action been taken to put a stop to governmental intrusion into our lives? http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/why-edward-snowden-is-a-hero


I despise the direction my country is headed.

What do you think?


Since apparently Lash's intent with this thread was to point out the media and liberals (I guess) fascism, my intent has been to point out various incidents which I consider a dangerous trend by this administration in stifling dissent. Trump supports Sinclair, which is nothing but propaganda rag in support of Trump. I have yet to read anything from Lash regarding the administration or Sinclair or anything negative concerning this president or the republicans in general. So I guess my intent here is merely pointing out more examples I consider proof of the weird game Lash been on the last couple of years with this supposed conversion. Her intent is finding ways to diss the Dem's and support Trump using the progressive platform as her vehicle in which to do it.
Lash
 
  -1  
Fri 6 Apr, 2018 11:53 am
@revelette1,
So, NDA contracts are all null and void?

The world will be interested to hear this.
Lash
 
  -2  
Fri 6 Apr, 2018 11:58 am
@revelette1,
Wrong. I’m interested in any type of behavior that lends itself to a description of fascism/authoritarianism.

I know Trump’s behavior lends to this.

The establishment Democrat crew here talks about that ad nauseum, so I bring other material about other anti-democratic moves by other individuals and entities.

I’m staring a hole through Jeff Bezos, currently.
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  1  
Fri 6 Apr, 2018 12:35 pm
@Lash,
I don't know, I am not a lawyer. I would just think in general think if there is a law which says a company can't fire someone because of political statements (whatever or however the Virginia law is worded) they make on their own time a company shouldn't be able to make contracts which goes against the law. I don't know the in's and out's of the case, nor the wording any (if any) contract she signed, nor the wording of the law. I am assuming the lawyers in the case on both sides do.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Fri 6 Apr, 2018 12:40 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:

I don't know, I am not a lawyer.


You're in good company, nobody else on this thread is a bloody lawyer either.

The person in your quotation has hired a lawyer though, and lawyerswill sort this out.

Quote:
And a private employer can’t suppress my freedom of expression on my own time out of fear of illegal government retaliation without violating Virginia employment law, which is why I filed a lawsuit against my former employer this week.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Fri 6 Apr, 2018 01:49 pm
@revelette1,
I don't know which of my responses you are talking about. I think I have been consistent in saying that the obsession with Nazis from the left isn't productive; not to the political goals of the left in particular, and certainly not with the state of political dialog in the country in general.

You can be upset with "stifling" of the media without yelling "Fascist". Under Fascist regimes the media is actually arrested, or killed or worse. Before you pull up one of Trump's inane tweets... I am talking about people actually being dragged out of their houses in the middle of the night. That is what happens under fascism.

If you are saying that the President of the United States shouldn't be getting into tweet battles with media figures, I would agree with you. But that doesn't have anything to do with Nazis.

Everyone I don't like is a Nazi... that is what today's liberals seem to be saying.

revelette1
 
  1  
Fri 6 Apr, 2018 02:06 pm
@maxdancona,
Who said anyone was a Nazi? Have I said so in a post and forgotten?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Fri 6 Apr, 2018 04:59 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:

Who said anyone was a Nazi? Have I said so in a post and forgotten?


Again... read the title of this thread, and look at the narrative that is being spun.

If there is a thread titled, "Donald Trump is a bumbling fool", I would be OK with that. If there was a thread saying "Donald Trump is attacking the press and that makes me upset"... that would be another thread that would be reasonable.

What is being said are things like "rising fascism" and "stifling free speech". It is hyped up hysteria. This is great for political partisanship. This is not so good for responsible political discourse.
 

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