Rising fascism in the US

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

The far left is hardly a menace to the US society, whereas the far right does pose a significant threat, whith one of them in the White House. Time to choose one's camp.

The far left is a very grave menace to society. They all belong at Guantanamo with their terrorist buddies.

Trump is the guy who will protect us from the bad guys. I side with him.

0 Replies

@BillW,

BillW wrote:

Simple search, you are just to lazy - Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire.

It is your job to support your own argument. You're the only lazy person here.

BillW wrote:

No talk, I don't deal with White Supremacist!

Liberals always falsely accuse people of racism or fascism when they lose another argument.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

How many left-wing terror attacks over the last 9 years? A paltry few, when compared to right-wing ones.

I don't have numbers, but if we include terrorist groups like ALF and ELF, Antifa, and Anonymous, I expect the number of left-wing terrorist attacks are significant.

1 Reply

@BillW,

BillW wrote:

You are missing the point with strawman arguments!

No. Max is making the point, with pertinent examples.

Extremists just don't like it when he points out facts.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

People here are putting partisanship over principle. The principle is that in a democracy conservatives have as many rights as liberals... and that Free Speech is an important part of that. If you only support Free Speech for people you agree with, then you don't really support Free Speech.

You're making a valiant effort, but I don't think they are interested in hearing the truth.

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@oralloy,

You might expect such a thing, but you'd be wrong. Why dontcha hunt up those numbers and let me know what ya find

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

I wonder if you have any idea how many parallels there are between what you wrote here and the political environment that led to the rise of the Nazi party in Germany. You should think about that a bit before questioning why people are worried about the direction this country is taking.

Quote:

I feel strongly that the country should be run by the people who win elections.

Really, and what happens if people run on things that are downright despicable, and win anyway? The rest of the populace is supposed to shrug, and say 'oh well?' I don't think so. Your view of how things work isn't really reflective of the reality of how they work, because it's a lot more complex than what you've written here

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

I wonder if you have any idea how many parallels there are between what you wrote here and the political environment that led to the rise of the Nazi party in Germany.

The parallels are invented in your mind. And your mind is not even unique.... go to the nearest right wing blog and see how many parallels they saw between the rise of the of the Nazi party and Obama. The right said as much about Obama 8 years before you started saying it about Trump (and I am pretty sure I remember this being said about Bush, and Clinton, and Reagan).

It is ridiculous what you are saying. The Nazis did not advocate for Free Speech and the resistance didn't go around shouting down speakers or getting professors fired.

Drawing parallels between Nazis and people you don't like is rather easy... and cliched.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote:

The parallels are invented in your mind.

I assure you, they are not. But you may feel free to believe whatever you like.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Did you believe it when they said the same thing about Obama? Or is this another example of partisanship.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Why dontcha hunt up those numbers and let me know what ya find

ELF:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Earth_Liberation_Front_actions

ALF:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Animal_Liberation_Front_actions,_2005–present

Anonymous:
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/08/14/anonymous-releases-alleged-name-of-officer-they-say-fatally-shot-michael-brown/
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/11/anonymous_begins_looking_into.html

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

I wonder if you have any idea how many parallels there are between what you wrote here and the political environment that led to the rise of the Nazi party in Germany. You should think about that a bit before questioning why people are worried about the direction this country is taking.

The US is not about to commit any genocide, with the possible exception of an overwhelming nuclear counterattack after North Korea nukes us first.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Really, and what happens if people run on things that are downright despicable, and win anyway? The rest of the populace is supposed to shrug, and say 'oh well?' I don't think so.

They do have free speech rights that allow them to speak out and say they disagree with something. They don't have the right to use violence against people they disagree with.

Trump has hardly run on anything despicable. His platform involves restoring America's middle class. That's not such a bad thing.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Oralloy, I don't think the facts are on your side on this one. However I also don't think it is important to my argument. I am not defending conservatives here against liberals, I am suggesting that both sides play fast and loose with the facts to make their own dubious partisan points.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

I'd have to see evidence of the argument that they made, before judging it as casually as you are doing here.

Let's see. Any of this sound familiar?

- Poor economic situation for many if not most citizens
- Demonization of minorities and foreigners, blaming problems on them
- Desire for a 'restoration of national pride'
- Promises of a restored economic future for all
- Growing political instability, which led to the rise of extremist parties and factions
- A feeling that government was stymied or incapable of addressing problems
- Drumbeats of war as external threats are hyped up
- Lionization and glorification of the military
- Demonization of the press, constant claims that the press is lying to the citizens and can't be trusted
- Charismatic leadership who relies on emotions to sway opinion
- An ideology of Nationalism above any other factor
- Acceptance of police violence

I could go on. The problem here is that you think I'm claiming that Trump is a Nazi, or even like one. He's not. But the situation we find ourselves in as a country is markedly similar to the one that allowed the RISE of the Nazi party to occur. And it's clear that the segments of our society who most resemble the Nazis feel emboldened and think that Trump's election shows that they are on the rise. I say that, because THEY are saying that. You should listen to them instead of just blowing them off.

Now, we see a situation in which the GOP is going to be under assault from within by Nationalists and far right-wingers. Trump is going to support that next cycle, he has no friends in Congress right now. What's going to happen if the GOP does turn into a farther-right, more extreme version of themselves, and their charismatic leader is cheering them on?

I can't stand people who think that the US is somehow rock-solid, and that bad things can't happen here. We're not and they can, and things can spiral out of control very quickly indeed. It behooves citizens to look out for upcoming problems and do what they can to stop it, not just shove our heads in the sand while muttering "it's insignificant, you both suck, you're equivalent, just shut up and let the people who were elected run things."

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@oralloy,

Quote:

The US is not about to commit any genocide, with the possible exception of an overwhelming nuclear counterattack after North Korea nukes us first.

Yaknow, the Nazis didn't run on or popularly talk about Genocide either. They started with a policy of kicking people out of the country, who they didn't like. Does that sound familiar? It ought to, seeing as you yourself advocate it here daily.

Quote:

His platform involves restoring America's middle class.

Hahaha, no, it doesn't. Not a single thing he's proposing has even a remote chance of doing that. But you're a great example for the thread of someone who is easily led around by a demagogue.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

- Poor economic situation for many if not most citizens
- Demonization of minorities and foreigners, blaming problems on them
- Desire for a 'restoration of national pride'
- Promises of a restored economic future for all
- Growing political instability, which led to the rise of extremist parties and factions
- A feeling that government was stymied or incapable of addressing problems
- Drumbeats of war as external threats are hyped up
- Lionization and glorification of the military
- Demonization of the press, constant claims that the press is lying to the citizens and can't be trusted
- Charismatic leadership who relies on emotions to sway opinion
- An ideology of Nationalism above any other factor
- Acceptance of police violence

Is this a list for Obama, or for Trump (or for Bush or for Clinton)? It isn't clear. Trump didn't inherit a particularly poor economic situation (and Obama did).

You can play this game with anyone.... and people have done exactly that for decades.

It is easy to cherry pick. Look at all the stuff you left out that happened in Hitler's actual rise to power. There was a Beer Hall Pusch, some time in prison, the shame of a lost World War, time in prison, questions of citizenship, a decided lack of Jewish people in the administration... and of course the gas chambers.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

tRump is a White Supremacist utilizing Nazi Fascist techniques. A tRump apologist is therefore by rule, a White Supremacist!

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

It's a list of the political situation of our country at this time, and yes, many of those problems existed under Obama. I don't think he personally did much to encourage them, the way Trump currently is, but it's not like the situation we're in sprang up instantly in January.

Now that that's out of the way, are you willing to admit that we're in a dangerous time as a country right now, and yes, historical parallels do exist to other very bad periods of time? The point of this conversation is not to demonize Trump or the GOP, but to instead show why people are right and correct to worry about things heading south quickly in our society.

Quote:

You left out the Beer Hall pusch, the time in prison, and the gas chambers.

No, I didn't. Those things aren't relevant to our current situation.

Cycloptichorn

edit: you added in that 'Trump didn't inherit a poor economic situation.' That's totally wrong. The economic situation for a large portion, if not a majority, of citizens in this country is pretty poor indeed. I could go into a lot of depth about it, but suffice to say that there's a shitload of pain out there right now and zero solutions from our government.

2 Replies

@BillW,

Quote:

tRump is a White Supremacist utilizing Nazi Fascist techniques. A tRump apologist is therefore by rule, a White Supremacist!

This is not even original.

Change the word "White" to "Black" in this little screed... and you have almost exactly what they were saying about Obama eight years ago.

It's kind of funny how you guys act the same even though you are on opposite sides.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

No, I didn't. Those things aren't relevant to our current situation.

They aren't relevant because they don't fit your political narrative. You are inventing a narrative and then cherry picking "facts" to fit it. The election of Trump is nothing like the rise of Hitler (unless you really want it to be). You can read about it here.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler

Again, you should note that people were playing this "Let's make the other side Nazis" game long before Trump came along. It is truly silly no matter which side does it.

1 Reply

Rising fascism in the US

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