Rising fascism in the US

@Baldimo,

Violence from the left only occurred after beatdowns of anti-Trump protestors at his rallies became routine. And in Charlottesville, the so-called "violent" left were the only people around to protect people in church from getting beat up.

By the way, got any links to any of your posts protesting Trump's goons beating up protestors at his rallies while Trump cheered them on? Because that's where the violence started.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

Quote:

Why can't you condemn violence from both sides? Do you really think that saying that liberals shouldn't be punching people plays into the hands of Nazi's?

Actually I can and do condemn violence from both sides. What I reject, is that number one, there is any comparison in the violence and number two, and most importantly, any comparison in the beliefs of the two groups.

2 Replies

@revelette1,

revelette1 wrote:

Quote:
Why can't you condemn violence from both sides? Do you really think that saying that liberals shouldn't be punching people plays into the hands of Nazi's?

Actually I can and do condemn violence from both sides. What I reject, is that number one, there is any comparison in the violence and number two, and most importantly, any comparison in the beliefs of the two groups.

Number three, no violence on the right means no violence from the left. This goes to intent! Thanks for pertinent post revelette.

0 Replies

The right want to force people to stand for the national anthem, saying it disrespects servicemen and -women not to. Yet Kaepernick has said that he was advised to kneel, as a protest, by a combat veteran. Rightwingnuts are calling for the Democratic Party to be banned, and rant about "purging" the Republican Party. Now Plump and the babbling heads of the right are talking about shutting down media outlets with which they disagree. The right-wing media attacks protesters and outspoken critics--apparently, we are no longer entitled to free speech and the right of assembly.

There certainly is a threat of neo-fascism in the United States, and it comes from the right.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

You have Kaepernick on one side. You have James Damore on the other side. The left-wing attacks one. The right-wing attacks the other. Both sides wants to shut down media outlets with which they agree.

This is about partisanship. It is not about principle.

1 Reply

@revelette1,

Quote:

Actually I can and do condemn violence from both sides. What I reject, is that number one, there is any comparison in the violence and number two, and most importantly, any comparison in the beliefs of the two groups.

You are correct about violence (if you think that a numerical comparison is valid).

The issue on the left is the the ability, and the desire, to shut down dissent through political pressure, particularly on campuses. The left doesn't need violence right now.... they have the ability to stifle speech through political correctness on campuses and in the media.

I don't know what you mean about "any comparison in the beliefs of the two groups". Are you saying anything more profound than; "my side is right and the other side is wrong?"

2 Replies

@maxdancona,

Bullsh*t, peddle your idiocy to someone else.

https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/2017/09/president-trump-wants-cut-off-internet/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-nbc-license-ban-tweet-cnn-shut-down-fake-news-threat-latest-a7994861.html

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
Actually I can and do condemn violence from both sides. What I reject, is that number one, there is any comparison in the violence and number two, and most importantly, any comparison in the beliefs of the two groups.

You are correct about violence (if you think that a numerical comparison is valid).

The issue on the left is the the ability, and the desire, to shut down dissent through political pressure, particularly on campuses. The left doesn't need violence right now.... they have the ability to stifle speech through political correctness on campuses and in the media.

This is overblown on your part. There really isn't much political speech 'on campuses' to begin with, and you don't see much shouting down in the media. I also would say that what you're talking about here is the far-left, and they're crazy and embarrassing to people like me in the same way that the far-right is to you.

Quote:

I don't know what you mean about "any comparison in the beliefs of the two groups". Are you saying anything more profound than; "my side is right and the other side is wrong?"

I mean, it's fallacious to say that the goals of Fascists and Anti-Fascists are the same, at all. One seeks dominion and ownership over their fellow man, and the other seeks to stop those who are obviously working towards that goal. I don't agree with a lot of what AntiFa does, but to say that they are the equivalent to those they fight against is pretty dumb.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

I mean, it's fallacious to say that the goals of Fascists and Anti-Fascists are the same, at all. One seeks dominion and ownership over their fellow man, and the other seeks to stop those who are obviously working towards that goal. I don't agree with a lot of what AntiFa does, but to say that they are the equivalent to those they fight against is pretty dumb.

Let's compare apples with apples. The far-left does want to control what people say, what movies people watch, what people wear, and what ideas get expressed. The far-left is punching people, and pulling fire alarms to prevent speakers with whom they disagree from speaking. They want movies to be pulled from theaters, and songs to be banned from the radio. They want professors who say the wrong things to be fired.

When you are talking about the two extremes.... I really don't see that much difference.

The game is to moderate ideas, and turn them into "fascism". Both sides are doing this. Right now the left is a little bit better at manipulating the media.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

The far-right wants to kick all people of a certain ethnicity out of our country and ban religious practices. They want to force you to follow their religion (explicitly). They want to dictate who you can and cannot marry and what sexuality you're allowed to have. They want to burn books that they don't like (and do). They have a long and bloody history in our country of actually murdering people, not shouting at them or protesting, but ******* murdering them.

If you can't see the difference here, I don't know what to tell ya, man

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Come on Cycloptichorn! You are defending extremists.

The extreme left does want to control thoughts and ban religion. There at least one pretty offensive anti-Catholic thread written by a leftist, right here on Able2know, that got support from many.

Do you really think that leftists don't burn books or murder people (you evidently aren't very good at history). There were thousands of bombings in the 1970s and there were murders committed by the left. In the past 50 years there have been far more acts of terror by American leftists than by Islamic terrorists.

You are willing to defend the extremists on your side. That's fine. Just, don't pretend you aren't defending extremists.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote:

I don't know what you mean about "any comparison in the beliefs of the two groups". Are you saying anything more profound than; "my side is right and the other side is wrong?"

In a word, yes. The side who are against all other people other than whites and Christians are clearly wrong. Call it what it is. We are talking about Antifa or those who are strictly against fascists on one side and Neo Nazis/KKK/other white supremacy groups on the other side. We are not talking about those on the right who are against taking down the confederate statues but do not subscribe to any of those groups or their beliefs.. Antifa whole purpose is stop racist from becoming mainstream which would make them powerful which would be bad for our country as our laws would reflect that change. I am not saying our laws should stifle free speech for racist. What I am saying is, someone on the other side needs to voice opposition to their views wherever or however the racist right is voicing their views. Freedom of speech works both ways.

Antifa is involved in a lot of things which do not involve violence or disruption of traffic at all.

The Changing Face of Anti-Fascism

Quote:

Today, antifascists still engage in direct confrontations -- but this has become less of a central focus and more like one tool in a toolbox. In most cities, the Nazis have left the punk scene, so there are fewer places where fascists and antifa directly battle it out for the same, contested terrain. There have been clashes against public racist and fascist events in the last year -- including in Atlanta, Anaheim and Sacramento. But public marches have also become a less favored tactic for the racist right, many of whom have instead concentrated on holding academic-style conferences, publishing journals, making podcasts and using social media. In tandem with this shift, antifascists have greatly increased their work on intelligence gathering, doxxing and pressure tactics.

The whole piece is very interesting.

1 Reply

The far left is hardly a menace to the US society, whereas the far right does pose a significant threat, whith one of them in the White House. Time to choose one's camp.

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

Bullshit Olivier,

Trump is not a Nazi any more than Obama was a Muslim terrorist. If you are going to use the word "far right" to mean Trump supporter, then your point has nothing to do with "Rising Fascism".

The Right Wing Propagandists want to make everything about the threat of Sharia Law. The Left Wing Propagandists want to make everything about the threat of "Fascism". Neither one of these is a real threat to the US.

1 Reply

@revelette1,

Revelette, read my response to Olivier, I responded to his post first because it is more simplistic than yours.

The left-wing attacks on Free-speech and their stifling of expression is a problem in the United States. No, I am not claiming that it is an existential problem. But, I do think that Freedom of Speech... even for offensive speech from unpopular groups... is a keystone of the United States and of any true modern democracy.

I don't think anyone is saying that violence committed by self-professed Nazi's shouldn't be punished... not even Trump is saying that. That isn't even an interesting point because we all agree with it.

However, there have been recent successes in preventing speeches from being heard, in punishing educators for their opinions, and even in getting private citizens fired by the wrath of popular mobs... it is the left that is having a real negative impact on free speech. The fact that there are Nazis on the other side doesn't change the fact, or offer any excuse for the fact, that the left is behaving in a way that restricts free expression by anyone who disagrees with them.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Come on Cycloptichorn! You are defending extremists.

I mean, I'm not. I have specifically denounced AntiFa on more than one occasion here on A2K. I dislike many of their tactics, which are illiberal and do nothing to advance their cause.

That being said, I understand their motivations - and they are NOT comparable to the motivations of right-wing extremists. Not even close.

Quote:

The extreme left does want to control thoughts and ban religion. There at least one pretty offensive anti-Catholic thread written by a leftist, right here on Able2know, that got support from many.

There is no popular left-wing movement to ban any religion in this country, so you're full of **** when you write this. And you know it.

Quote:

Do you really think that leftists don't burn books or murder people (you evidently aren't very good at history). There were thousands of bombings in the 1970s and there were murders committed by the left. In the past 50 years there have been far more acts of terror by American leftists than by Islamic terrorists.

Haha, if we're talking about actual people killed, right-wing extremists take the cake. By a mile. You can say what you want about the 70's - there certainly were a lot of bombings by holdover 1960's protestors - but we're not living then, we're living NOW, and right now, right-wing extremism is the biggest threat to any individual citizen in this country. Far more so than leftists or Islamic terrorists.

Quote:

You are willing to defend the extremists on your side. That's fine. Just, don't pretend you aren't defending extremists.

See above. I'm not defending anyone. I am pointing out that comparing AntiFa to actual Fascists and white supremacists is ridiculous - which it is - and that YOU are doing so in an attempt to defend white supremacists and actual fascists.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

A quick google search shows that over the past nine years there were 115 right wing terror attacks, and 63 Islamic terror attacks. So you are right... about 70% of terror attacks are committed by right wing extremists. I am sure that the number of deaths is equally lopsided.

So what?

I will say to you the same thing I say to people who use Islamophobia to justify taking away rights. The chance of you, or your family, or anyone you know being targeted by terrorists is minuscule.

It doesn't justify giving up our rights as people in a modern democracy.

2 Replies

The so-called weather underground killed one man, a janitor at the University of Wisconsin, by mistake. Their biggest killing was when several members were blown up while making home-made bombs. The Oklahoma City bombing claimed 168 lives--most of them children--and injured almost 700 others.

The bullshit in this thread is getting so deep, I'm going to check to see if any of the neighbors have some hip waders.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta brings up the Oklahoma City bombing for the same reason that Rudy Guilliani brings up 9/11. It is a bogus argument. Extremism does not justify extremism.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

A quick google search shows that over the past nine years there were 115 right wing terror attacks, and 63 Islamic terror attacks. So you are right... about 70% of terror attacks are committed by right wing extremists. I am sure that the number of deaths is equally lopsided.

Wrong, Islamic extremists are right wing, therefore:

... about 100% of terror attacks are committed by right wing extremists.

0 Replies

Rising fascism in the US

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know