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Rising fascism in the US

 
 
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Sat 7 Oct, 2017 09:58 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:
Chomsky is full of ****


Let me guess you think you are more informed than he?


Did I say that? I said he was full of ****.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Sun 8 Oct, 2017 04:02 am
I love this trend.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/education/university/university-of-wisconsin-students-could-be-expelled-for-disrupting-campus/article_f06bcb48-52c5-59ab-9582-983e4d97eb50.html

Excerpt:

University of Wisconsin System leaders approved a policy Friday that calls for suspending and expelling students who disrupt campus speeches and presentations, saying students need to listen to all sides of issues and arguments.

The Board of Regents adopted the language on a voice vote during a meeting at UW-Stout in Menomonie.

The policy states that students found to have twice engaged in violence or other disorderly conduct that disrupts others’ free speech would be suspended. Students found to have disrupted others’ free expression three times would be expelled.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sun 8 Oct, 2017 05:07 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
I love this trend.
So actually you are against free speech in general and love just that which you favour.

Thinking about the the words "rising fascism": we had had exactly the same procedure here - one of the first aims of the NS regime was the
total control of universities, opponents were expelled, demonstrators went in the KZ's.
Lash
 
  1  
Sun 8 Oct, 2017 05:38 am
@Walter Hinteler,
1. Everyone can speak. 😊

2. Everyone can avoid speech they don't think they want to hear. 😊

3. No one can put a stop to someone else's speech without a warning that will lead to expulsion if shutting down other's speech continues. 🎉

You equate that with "total control of universities"?



Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sun 8 Oct, 2017 06:09 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

You equate that with "total control of universities"?
I wrote:
one of the first aims of the NS regime was the
total control of universities, opponents were expelled, demonstrators went in the KZ's.

In any case, the general shift is evident, in which quietening supposed enemies of Republicans at the University of Wisconsin is not only seen as acceptable and but punished.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Sun 8 Oct, 2017 06:14 am
@Walter Hinteler,
You somehow twisted this around Walter. Your argument is equating violence and disruption with speech. Speech means communicating a message which can include anger, disapproval; but once it becomes violence or disruption, it is no longer speech.

Let's make it clear what is happening.

A group of students with a minority opinion (in this case US Conservatives) invite a speaker with an unpopular point of view. Liberal groups are responding with the following tactics.

1. They publicize the fact that an unpopular speaker is speaking and rile up as much opposition as possible.

2. They put political pressure on the University administrations to block the speaker from speaking. This is done with very public defamation campaigns launched not only at the speaker, but at faculty of the University.

3. They call for, and they take, direct action to prevent speakers from being heard. This includes shouting down the speaker to prevent them from being heard. It includes physically rushing the stage where the speaker is. It includes pulling fire alarms. It also sometimes includes includes violence, pushing and punching.

Universities should make this pretty simple distinction.

Any speech is protected and any speaker has a platform to express her views be they liberal or conservative to any student who wants to listen. Free speech includes people on the other side voicing angry disapproval, or debating, debunking and dismissing.

Any disruption, violence, vandalism used to prevent speech should be banned.

As long as you accept the principle that violence isn't speech and that speech isn't violence then there is no problem with this. Right now in the US, it is the liberal side that is using disruption, threats and at times violence to stifle dissent on University campuses. You don't see many professors being losing their jobs for expressing liberal views.

izzythepush
 
  3  
Mon 9 Oct, 2017 06:34 am
Quote:
White nationalist protesters have returned to the US town Charlottesville two months after violent clashes there saw a woman killed.
The town's mayor said the small group's appearance at the statue of a Confederate general was "another despicable visit by neo-Nazi cowards".
The brief torch-lit rally was organised by far-right figure Richard Spencer.
In videos he posted protesters can be heard chanting "You will not replace us" and "we will be back".
The statue of Confederate General Robert E Lee was also the venue for the "Unite the Right" rally in August, held to oppose plans to remove it.
Counter-demonstrator Heather Heyer, 32, was killed when a participant drove into a group of counter-protesters at high speed.
Between 40 and 50 people are thought to have attended the rally in Emancipation Park by the statue of Gen Lee, which has been covered up while a legal challenge to its removal takes place.
In the video live-streamed by Mr Spencer, he said Charlottesville had become a symbol of the suppression of free speech and destruction of historical monuments.
The group, all dressed similarly and holding lit torches, could be heard chanting "the south will rise again" and "Russia is our friend".
Another speaker said the group was there to "represent white America's interests" and criticised the local community and the media.
Police said the group left the park shortly before 20:00 (0:00 GMT). Mayor Mike Signer said officials were looking at legal ways to prevent further events.
Mr Spencer is the founder of a right-wing website and think-tank and has made a series of controversial comments at public events, including allegedly advocating "peaceful" ethnic cleansing.
The US has been gripped by a national debate on whether to remove Confederate symbols from the US civil war because of their association with slavery.
After the violence in Charlottesville, many local governments acted to remove Confederate monuments.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41543631
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  3  
Mon 9 Oct, 2017 08:58 am
@maxdancona,
You act as though this is prevalent all across America. So far it is has mostly been Berkley which has long been a liberal college since I can remember. Do a comparison on violence committed by alt-right racist groups and liberal groups and then a real debate could be made on the subject. I think there is some kind of movement by alt-right groups to go to traditional liberal places and force their views to be heard. They want violence and I imagine it thrills them when comparisons are made. You are playing into their hands.

Don’t fall for the antifa trap (Vox)

Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Mon 9 Oct, 2017 09:25 am
@revelette1,
It will go on:
Quote:
Tommy Robinson, founder of the far-right English Defence League, is to give a talk to one of America’s most prestigious universities.

Mr Robinson, 34, who has repeatedly been accused of stoking Islamophobia, will address students of traditionally liberal, Ivy League Columbia University on Tuesday in a talk provocatively entitled: “The Fall of Europe - Mass Immigration”.
[...]
On October 30 students will hear from Mike Cernovich, who helped fuel the ‘pizzagate’ conspiracy theory in which Democrats linked to Hillary Clinton were falsely accused of child sex trafficking – and who has also been lavishly praised by Donald Trump’s son Donald Trump Jr.

The Columbia University College Republicans (CUCR) club, which is organising both talks, described Mr Robinson as “an important political figure in England and Europe”, who has “championed the notion that radical Islam is incompatible with Western values and the freedoms we currently enjoy”.

It also claimed Mr Robinson “has been jailed unfairly due to his politics, which should frighten any American who values freedom of speech.”

The promotional material gave no explanation as to when or where Mr Robinson might have been “unfairly jailed”.

Nor did it mention that the EDL founder was jailed for 12 months for a drunken assault in 2005, jailed again in January 2013 for using someone else’s passport to enter the US illegally, and again in January 2014 for his part in a £160,000 mortgage fraud.

[... ... ...]

Given Mr Robinson’s criminal record, it is thought he will be unable to travel to the US in person and will instead address students via Skype.

... ... ...
Source
izzythepush
 
  2  
Mon 9 Oct, 2017 09:44 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Tommy Robinson is a joke, he had a book signing in an off licence, (no book shop would have him,) which turned very nasty.

For the Americans, an off licence is somewhere licensed to sell alcohol to be consumed off the premises. I think you call it a liquor store.

Quote:
Violence broke out at Tommy Robinson’s book signing at an off-licence in Sunderland leaving one person injured.

Police were called to the former English Defence League leader’s event which was being held at Fletcher’s News & Booze shortly before a Sunderland-Celtic match the same day.

An 18-year-old man at the local corner shop suffered a head injury and was taken to hospital. Police have said they are carrying out enquiries to determine the details of the incident.

Video footage posted on social media showed a flare and other objects being hurled towards the local shop before fighting erupted on the street.
The far-right activist, who was filmed scuffling with a man at Ascot last month, shared a photo of himself wearing a Rangers football shirt inside the off-licence.

Rangers are of course Celtics’ arch rivals and Mr Robinson had criticised and taunted Celtics in a video posted on his Facebook page earlier.

In the four-minute video, the 34-year-old drew attention to the fact Celtic fans show solidarity with the people of Palestine, saying: “Palestine hates you”.
“All these girls who have got their cleavage out and their Celtic tops… take your cleavage, take your Celtic top and walk through Gaza and show me your solidarity,” he added. “Because you won’t have any. You’ll have the biggest shock of your life. So stop hating on me."

Mr Robinson then said he was heading to the shop, which until recently had the words “Don’t fund terrorism shop at Fletcher’s” plastered on its exterior signage, because he thinks the owner is a “good lad”.

More than 20 football fans were arrested in Sunderland after trouble erupted in the city before the match. Police said the majority were not linked to Mr Robinson’s book signing and were related to people being drunk and disorderly, using illegal pyrotechnics and committing a breach of the peace.

Emergency services were called to the shop which is in Hendon, a heavily industrial part of Sunderland with a large concentration of high-rise residential tower blocks, at about 1.40pm.
Assistant Chief Constable Helen McMillan said: "Unfortunately, we did have some incidents of disorder in and around Sunderland between Sunderland and Celtic fans and, while police dealt with them quickly, it is a shame these type of incidents happen at all."

Mr Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, has come under fire in recent weeks for his response to the spate of terror attacks. He sparked fury for attacking the Quran as a “violent and cursed book” just a day after the Finsbury Park terror attack and was condemned for launching into a tirade about Islamic extremism at the scene of the Westminster attack.

The far-right campaigner announced he was leaving the EDL in 2013 in a joint conference with think tank Quilliam. His departure was widely covered, with the former leader later telling police he would help with their investigations into alleged racists within the extremist group. Mr Robinson is now the UK leader of Pegida which stands for Patriotic Europeans against the Islamisation of the West. ​

Sunderland were beaten by Celtic 5-0.




http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tommy-robinson-sunderland-book-signing-off-licence-edl-leader-violence-anti-racist-islamophobia-a7868531.html
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 9 Oct, 2017 10:05 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
For the Americans, an off licence is somewhere licensed to sell alcohol to be consumed off the premises. I think you call it a liquor store.
Quite often, off-licences are adjoint rough pubs. And to find the local rough pub, you just ask friendly local neo-Nazis to enlighten you as to their whereabouts.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  0  
Mon 9 Oct, 2017 10:27 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:

One free market idea would be a public option but being there are people like you and many democrats included too, who vote for the corporatist establishment candidates we will always be exploited.

Public option is a free market idea? I don't think the "free" in free market thinks what you think it does. So I would be forced to pay higher taxes and I could pay for my own insurance? Wow, a double whammy against my income.
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  2  
Mon 9 Oct, 2017 10:28 am
@Walter Hinteler,
It is sort of ironical these groups who are against freedoms for everybody except people like themselves are claiming freedom of speech to talk about taking away freedom from others.

I think we should keep our eye out, it wouldn't surprise me if he is allowed in despite his criminal history.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Mon 9 Oct, 2017 10:32 am
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:
You are playing into their hands.


I think he knows that, it's deliberate.
revelette1
 
  2  
Mon 9 Oct, 2017 10:34 am
@izzythepush,
I am not sure. I know I was caught up in the trap referred to by Vox until I wised up.
Baldimo
 
  -2  
Mon 9 Oct, 2017 10:34 am
@revelette1,
You mean a far left news site is tell the rest of America to believe that there is a such thing as violence extreme leftists?
revelette1
 
  1  
Mon 9 Oct, 2017 10:37 am
@Baldimo,
Yes there is a such thing, but it is not near the violence it has been portrayed in recent conservative and some mainstream articles.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  3  
Mon 9 Oct, 2017 06:23 pm
@revelette1,
Quote:

You act as though this is prevalent all across America. So far it is has mostly been Berkley which has long been a liberal college since I can remember. Do a comparison on violence committed by alt-right racist groups and liberal groups and then a real debate could be made on the subject.


Why can't you condemn violence from both sides? Do you really think that saying that liberals shouldn't be punching people plays into the hands of Nazi's?

Explain why you think this is so.

I believe in Free Speech. And, I believe that the term "Free Speech" is meaningless unless it applies to everyone. I also believe that violence and disruption has no place in public debate. I believe that this applies to everyone.

I can say this while condemning Nazi hatred and racism. Why can't you?
Lash
 
  0  
Mon 9 Oct, 2017 06:30 pm
@revelette1,
You are swayed so easily.

The violence is wrong. Period.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Mon 9 Oct, 2017 06:30 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Why can't you condemn violence from both sides? Do you really think that saying that liberals shouldn't be punching people plays into the hands of Nazi's?
maxdancona wrote:
I believe in Free Speech. And, I believe that the term "Free Speech" is meaningless unless it applies to everyone. I also believe that violence and disruption has no place in public debate. I believe that this applies to everyone.

I can say this while condemning Nazi hatred and racism.

Bravo!
0 Replies
 
 

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