29
   

Rising fascism in the US

 
 
Lash
 
  0  
Wed 20 Sep, 2017 08:43 am
@revelette1,
That was an interesting piece.

I noticed the self-described white supremacist guy didn't say he wanted to hurt anyone. I was really surprised.

Of course, his views stand in stark contrast to most people here who hear them.

Had he said the kind of stuff I expected him to say, "We want to eradicate them from existence," or, "I'll never forget the fun cross-burning party in that black family's yard last week," he could have been arrested and his lovely white supremacist group could have been actively dismantled legally.

THAT is the way it should work. Know the line. Watch the line. Enforce the line.

The reason I hate antifa so much is they HAVE crossed the line; we have evidence; yet, they are not being dismantled or listed and treated as a terrorist organization.

I also wonder about the KKK. Is there videotaped evidence of incitement to violence by their grand Poobah somewhere?

These groups and individuals begin on the default of free speech (as it stands in American courts currently) and that right is theirs to lose by running afoul of the law.

I'm comfortable with that AS LONG AS we can count on our system to keep that process effective.

izzythepush
 
  2  
Wed 20 Sep, 2017 09:43 am
@revelette1,
There's no organisation called antifa, that's something made up by Donald Trump. There is no comparison between Nazis and Anti fascists, none whatsoever.

People may be responsible for their own actions but that doesn't mean demagogues don't have some responsibility when crowds get whipped up into violence.

There's a world of difference between attacking groups of people for something they have no control over like gender, race, sexuality and an organisation like the KKK. People choose to join that, they choose to hate, they're not born with white hoods and tiki lanterns.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Wed 20 Sep, 2017 09:50 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

There's no organisation called antifa, that's something made up by Donald Trump. There is no comparison between Nazis and Anti fascists, none whatsoever.


thank you for holding the line

_____

every time someone uses antifa as an understood term, you know #45, Bannon and their friends have pushed something else into the mainstream
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  1  
Wed 20 Sep, 2017 09:59 am
@Lash,
Quote:
I also wonder about the KKK. Is there videotaped evidence of incitement to violence by their grand Poobah somewhere?


I thought you lived in south? White hoods, burning barns and houses with a black person in the yard on a cross ring any bells? These people are not stupid, they know what not to say out loud, "hey, lets go burn someone on a cross" in a place where they are going to be recorded. There are still hate crimes committed every day, just maybe not so blatantly as in times past when it encouraged by local governments. Those kinds of decisions are probably made in the dark, in the woods, with no cameras on someone private property.

Here is a good piece from politico on the subject concerning Portland, which speaks about all of them including antifa.

How Liberal Portland Became America’s Most Politically Violent City

revelette1
 
  1  
Wed 20 Sep, 2017 10:04 am
@izzythepush,
Yes, there is. (link in previous post)

Quote:
Locals began pushing back. In 2007, a group called Rose City Antifa took form, borrowing the shortened form of “antifascist” for its name. The crew pointed to similar European movements, which had, in places like Germany and Italy, arisen in response to the fascist movements that would eventually crater Europe in World War II. It also tapped into regional currents of anarchism and latent communism. These were the political strains that had sparked, among other things, the 1999 “Battle of Seattle” protests against the World Trade Organization, which resulted in millions of dollars’ worth of property damage in the city.

From its inception, Portland’s antifa contingent cloaked itself in anonymity; as a 2009 story in Portland’s Willamette Week noted, “Little is known publicly about Rose City Antifa.” And little seems to have changed in the decade since. Its unofficial uniform comprises blood-red and black bandanas and hoods, but the group doesn’t keep any official membership rolls, let alone share last names with anyone outside of its circle. “Why do we wear masks? Because [of] instances of antifa people [who] have been assassinated,” says David, a member of Rose City Antifa who, like all group members before him, declined to share his last name with POLITICO Magazine. The historical examples are not recent, but they are well-known in the group: Skinheads murdered a pair of anti-racist activists in Nevada in 1998, luring them to the desert outside Las Vegas, and local antifa have claimed that a 2010 incident in Portland—a shooting that left a self-described anti-racist skinhead in critical condition—was also politically motivated.
Lash
 
  0  
Wed 20 Sep, 2017 10:22 am
@revelette1,
I don't understand why law enforcement, the FBI, some responsible entity doesn't infiltrate, take evidence on the KKK and antifa, and deem them terrorists and prosecute. Raid their money and jail offenders and effectively shut them down.

That is the current failing of this issue.

However, I'm thrilled that they are arresting violent protesters and sharing their photos finally.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 20 Sep, 2017 10:29 am
@revelette1,
You're talking about a few individuals, local to the area. It's not the same as the organised alt right by the likes of Bannon. Still, only fascists, people who choose to hate, are affected. They're not anti White, anti Yankee or anti American, they're just anti Nazi.

I have only heard Trump use the term, then his acolytes and then other Americans cowed into submission. It's not a term that's ever been used over here.
Lash
 
  1  
Wed 20 Sep, 2017 10:37 am
Talk about alt facts. "There is no antifa..."
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  1  
Wed 20 Sep, 2017 10:46 am
@Lash,
I don't recall you mentioning the KKK or other white supremacy groups quite as much as you do anitfa or anti-racist, whatever, groups. You seem a little lopsided on the issue.

Moreover, violent protesters have always been arrested. I can recall images from the news in the 60 and 70's protesters being taken away in handcuffs.

The only similarity between antifa and racist groups is the violence and being willing to silence the other side. Other than that, izzythepush is right, there is no comparison.
revelette1
 
  1  
Wed 20 Sep, 2017 10:52 am
@izzythepush,
Your right, the term is new, at first I thought as you did, until I looked it up and realized it was real and not just in Portland. Also, I am sure not everyone who shows up to protest against racist are part of that violent group. Unlike when Trump said there were "good people" among that group, not every liberal who protest is Antifa, probably not even close to a majority. However, that group does the rest of us no favors and gives ammunition to the wrong side to use against us like Trump did.
Lash
 
  0  
Wed 20 Sep, 2017 10:53 am
@revelette1,
You're right.

The great majority of people on this board are overwhelmingly lopsided in the other direction, and when that happens, I'm drawn to bring balance.

izzythepush
 
  2  
Wed 20 Sep, 2017 12:34 pm
@revelette1,
Over here Anti fascism is a cross party issue. Every protest is going to attract some hotheads, but it's a far cry from the organised violence of the far right.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Wed 20 Sep, 2017 12:35 pm
@Lash,
Regardless of the truth.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Wed 20 Sep, 2017 01:07 pm
Re hate speech, just came across this. Seems quite appropriate. I'll post updates as it develops.

Quote:
The leader and deputy leader of the far-right group Britain First have been charged with religious harassment.
Paul Golding, 35, and Jayda Fransen, 31, both from Penge, south-east London, were arrested in May.
Kent Police were investigating the distribution of leaflets in the Thanet and Canterbury areas, and the posting of online videos during a trial at Canterbury Crown Court in May.
Both have been bailed to appear before Medway magistrates on 17 October.
Ms Fransen has been charged with four counts of causing religiously aggravated harassment.
Mr Golding has been charged with three counts.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-41338328
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  -2  
Wed 20 Sep, 2017 02:13 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

On the basis of the amount of blood and treasure they expended, the Soviets saved Europe from fascism. People are such dicks when it comes to ideas such as that.


You might be treading on the sacred ground of intractable beliefs. It seems to be telling when even your logical statements seem to fall on deaf ears. How many posters still equate Russia with Communism?
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  -2  
Wed 20 Sep, 2017 02:16 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:


This anti-US snobbery from Europeans is a little trying.


"Trying" enough to say that some of our President's attitudes might reflect an awareness of what you are pointing out?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Wed 20 Sep, 2017 08:01 pm
@izzythepush,
It is my intention to be truthful.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Thu 21 Sep, 2017 12:25 am
@Lash,
Stop parroting Trump then.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Thu 21 Sep, 2017 12:42 am
Quote:
Facebook will add more human reviewers to its advertising system after admitting it failed to prevent, or even notice, anti-Semitic targeting on the network.
Sheryl Sandberg, the network’s chief operating officer, said she was "disgusted" by the findings of a ProPublica investigation published last week.
The report found that ads could be bought to specifically target users who described themselves as “Jew haters”, as well as other similarly hateful terms.
“We never intended or anticipated this functionality being used this way – and that is on us,” Ms Sandberg wrote.
In a post on Facebook, she added: “Seeing those words made me disgusted and disappointed - disgusted by these sentiments and disappointed that our systems allowed this.
“Hate has no place on Facebook – and as a Jew, as a mother, and as a human being, I know the damage that can come from hate.
“The fact that hateful terms were even offered as options was totally inappropriate and a fail on our part. We removed them and when that was not totally effective, we disabled that targeting section in our ad systems.”
Hold tech firms accountable
Responding to the announcement, the Anti-Defamation League said it welcomed Ms Sandberg’s comments.
“We spoke to Facebook last week to understand what happened and asked for detailed steps they'd take to prevent this sort of hateful ad-targeting,” said Jonathan Greenblatt, the ADL’s chief executive.
“We are glad that they are taking immediate, meaningful action, and ADL will continue to hold tech companies accountable for following through on these actions.”
Ms Sandberg said the team of human reviewers would be responsible for monitoring the terms that can be used to sell advertising.
In addition, she said the company was working on a new system that would allow users to report inappropriate advertising categories, much in the way normal posts can be reported today.
Facebook is not the only company to fall foul of poorly designed advertising algorithms in recent months. Google also had to take action after its system allowed the placement of search ads next to racist and anti-Semitic terms. So too did Twitter have to take action against abuses of its ad system.
The stories are being seen as a wake-up call for companies that rely on algorithms to handle the heavy lifting on their platforms - without any thought given to the potential for abuse.
Facebook's ads were also in the spotlight earlier this month when it was discovered that a Russian group was likely behind the purchase of politically charged advertising targeting American voters. That information was passed on to a wider US investigation into Russian meddling in last year's presidential election.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41342642
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Thu 21 Sep, 2017 05:50 am
@izzythepush,
I've never done that. I reject your effort to chill my speech by mischaracterizing it to be like Trump's.
 

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