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Rising fascism in the US

 
 
Lash
 
  -3  
Sat 17 Dec, 2022 11:30 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

Is Twitter a private company and well within its rights to ban who they please or not?

I remember when I first saw Obama delivering the keynote speech that put him on the national map to the presidency. I knew he was destined for big things, so I began paying attention to him.

I noticed he dodged a LOT of votes and back in the day, knowing that his votes would be closely observed if he ran for the presidency, I immediately knew he was no better than anyone else. Anyone who avoids speaking openly and honestly their own opinion is a dishonest, bad faith player who doesn’t deserve respect.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  5  
Sat 17 Dec, 2022 12:09 pm
I see market dominance (which already exists) as a bigger threat than a possible slippery slope leading to fascism. Twitter has no real competition and as a single corporation now owned by a single individual, any mistakes or politically motivated choices end up affecting free speech concerns simply because there is as yet no functioning alternative to the platform. Obviously, smaller platforms can still provide an outlet for any opinion deemed ban-worthy by Musk (or Zuckerberg) but the beef here is that twitter is the big enchilada. Monopoly capitalism removes alternatives from the marketplace, raising a clownish figure like Musk to an undeserved level of importance.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Sat 17 Dec, 2022 01:38 pm
Since 90% of mainstream media is in the pocket of the dominant political party and they direct that magnitude of propaganda to the public, it is far safer for anyone other than this consortium of criminals to have control of Twitter.

State controlled media is Fascism. It’s what we had. Many of us knew it. Don’t be concerned, tho—that same fascistic consortium still runs most American news media, Facebook, et almost al. and will attack Musk or any owner who doesn’t comply with their pro-war, pro-corporate, anti-union agenda.

So, that’s better.
blatham
 
  3  
Sat 17 Dec, 2022 02:27 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
Re: blatham (Post 7289617)
Is Twitter a private company and well within its rights to ban who they please or not?

Jesus, you are tiresome. Right above, I wrote...
Quote:
you have had this explained to you over and over again. A private company has the "right" to do whatever they wish so long as it does not violate existing laws and regulations.

0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Sat 17 Dec, 2022 02:39 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
I just went on a NAFTA tirade here...NAFTA was a light switch moment in this dismissal of the ‘flyover states’. The rug was ripped from under several states. Clinton’s loss was directly tied to her husband’s NAFTA decision. Seems like opiates, Trump & QANON were the radical responses.

Boy, I bet that tirade was deeply researched.
Quote:
The impetus for a North American free trade zone began with U.S. president Ronald Reagan, who made the idea part of his 1980 presidential campaign. After the signing of the Canada–United States Free Trade Agreement in 1988, the administrations of U.S. president George H. W. Bush, Mexican President Carlos Salinas de Gortari, and Canadian prime minister Brian Mulroney [Conservative Party leader] agreed to negotiate what became NAFTA
wikipedia
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Sat 17 Dec, 2022 02:56 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
Since 90% of mainstream media is in the pocket of the dominant political party and they direct that magnitude of propaganda to the public, it is far safer for anyone other than this consortium of criminals to have control of Twitter.

State controlled media is Fascism. It’s what we had. Many of us knew it. Don’t be concerned, tho—that same fascistic consortium still runs most American news media, Facebook, et almost al. and will attack Musk or any owner who doesn’t comply with their pro-war, pro-corporate, anti-union agenda
.

Your thinking and education in all the above is awe-inspiring. Let's just take two points:
The very last person one might accuse of being pro-corporate is Elon Musk. Am I right or am I right?
And as to unionization...
Quote:
Tesla, Inc. is an American electric car and clean energy company which employs over 110,000 workers across its global operations,[1] without using trade unions. As of 2016 Tesla was the only major American auto manufacturer without a union in the United States,[2] as well as in Germany.[3] Tesla CEO Elon Musk has commented negatively on trade unions in relation to Tesla.
wikipedia

Lash, you're a waste of everyone's time. You haven't even had the grace and integrity to apologize for the disgusting posts you wrote on Paul Pelosi. I'm done with you. I sincerely hope others will ignore you as well.

Lash
 
  0  
Sat 17 Dec, 2022 03:16 pm
@blatham,
You’re nothing more than a cheerleader for the most dangerous political power to emerge in my lifetime.

Nothing you say is honest or of value.

You avoid answering questions and transparency because you want to be able to shift your opinion based on which way the wind is blowing.

I’m recording what happened to the US relating to speech and power grabs for others who come through here and for myself.

Please keep your word and bugger off.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Sat 17 Dec, 2022 03:20 pm
Clinton and NAFTA

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/08/clinton-signs-nafta-into-law-dec-8-1993-1040789

Excerpt:

On this day in 1993, Bill Clinton, the first Democratic president in 12 years, signed the North American Free Trade Agreement into law. The pact, which took effect on Jan. 1, 1994, created the world’s largest free-trade zone. At the time, Clinton said he hoped the agreement would encourage other nations to work toward an even broader world-trade pact.

The deal approved by the United States, Canada and Mexico 24 years ago eliminated virtually all tariffs and trade restrictions among the three nations. Its passage marked one of Clinton’s first major legislative victories — although in both the Senate and the House more Republicans than Democrats voted for passage.

In 1992, Reform Party presidential candidate Ross Perot — who had challenged both Clinton and George H.W. Bush, the incumbent president who was seeking reelection — argued that if Congress passed NAFTA, Americans would hear a “giant sucking sound” of companies fleeing the United States for Mexico, where workers could be employed for less pay and without benefits
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Sat 17 Dec, 2022 03:50 pm
A tweet most Leftists agree with:
(12/17/22)

Nah fam it’s still better than where we were 2 years ago. That **** was wild. if you said COVID might’ve come from a lab back then you would’ve been publicly executed and called a right wing fascist conspiracy pig during it. Elon Twitter is not perfect, but def better than that.

__________________

Billionaire Elon Musk has come in swashbuckling, made a few mistakes, and only a few conservatives, desperate for a new savior or a bit verklempt to be saved from the trash bin of social media bestow on him a higher status than deserved—but most denizens of Twitter2.0 do gratefully acknowledge Musk’s decision to buy Twitter, expel the censors, and support a more transparent platform has made a huge difference in the previous trajectory toward authoritarianism in the US.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Sat 17 Dec, 2022 03:52 pm
Notice how often internet "discussions" are dominated by quoting purveyors of opinion who are unencumbered by the sort of fact-checking which characterized print journalism. Opinions that are repeated so often and by so many that they become conflated with fact. Opinions about opinions, shared opinions, demands that people state their opinions – and everyone's opinion is of equal value because opinions are all political messaging amounts to since no one on these forums is doing independent research on anything other than what opinion some opinionated "expert" posted last night.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy sharing my opinions with like-minded people. But I've come to see the web as a very poor arena for actually determining the truth or achieving consensus. Why bother conducting a reasoned argument when you can just type out a few one liners, quote someone's opinion, use internet jargon, and toss in an insult – as many times a day as you have time for. You can redefine common terms to suit your own purpose. And you never have to look anyone in the eye or bear personal responsibility because you're just quoting someone else's opinion, or posing a (loaded) question. At the end of the day it's all very hollow – no arguments get settled and tomorrow there'll be a whole new crop of opinions, flavored with the leftover vitriol of the previous day. Somehow this doesn't really seem like the apotheosis of free speech – it's more like high school.
BillW
 
  1  
Sat 17 Dec, 2022 03:58 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
Somehow this doesn't really seem like the apotheosis of free speech – it's more like high school.

You mean high school dropouts of conservative ilk arguing with liberal Doctorates?
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  1  
Sat 17 Dec, 2022 04:49 pm
@hightor,
Actually, I need to revise this:
I wrote:
Somehow this doesn't really seem like the apotheosis of free speech – it's more like high school.

No, it's not really like high school – people actually knew each other in high school. There wasn't a convenient alternative platform to real life. So just end the post this way:
Quote:
Somehow this doesn't really seem like the apotheosis of free speech.



0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Sat 17 Dec, 2022 06:42 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
...and everyone's opinion is of equal value because opinions are all political messaging amounts to since no one on these forums is doing independent research on anything other than what opinion some opinionated "expert" posted last night.

That is how the dynamic mostly plays out on social media, particularly when the subjects addressed are political, historical, philosophical, religious and/or scientific. That is, when the subjects are complex and often emotionally freighted and where education, reflection, open-mindedness and nuance are the proper and necessary modes of (or precursors to) truly valuable thought and discussion.

As we all understand, there was an initial eruption of enthusiasm with the advent of the internet. A key element to that enthusiasm was the faith or hope that "democratization" of information flows would work towards a leveling of discourse and that this would work towards reducing the perceived power and insularity held by the few and thus redistribute that power more fairly. I think it is clear such redistribution did happen. What is far less clear is that we had reason to be optimistic about that. Consider two cases: your child is seriously ill and so you get opinions from medical professionals along with opinions from your postman and people in the local pub. Or you wonder how to best grasp events in Ukraine so you turn to the knowledge and expertise of those who are there or who've long studied the matter and you also consult current popular celebrities and the guy on the street holding up the "Repent!" sign, weighting them equally.

And we are not helped in all of this by the long-standing American (but not just) antipathy towards and distrust of intellectualism, thus of experts, the well educated and any other such seen to be members of some "snooty elite". Similarly, we are not helped by the same sort of distrust of institutions where that distrust (though obviously necessary if done carefully) is merely kneejerk and undiscerning.

At the same time, the impulses towards leveling of power and influence are entirely understandable. That is, I think, a fundamental aspect of our human social nature or psychology. And it can work to everyone's benefit where power, influence and wealth are truly undeserved, which is often the case. But there are other elements of our social psychology which don't work to our benefit such as the clear tendency of some portion of every population who find comfort in agreement or consensus simply as a function of being/feeling validated and thus part of a community of brothers and sisters.

These are not easy problems particularly in a period of rapid change and where many are having trouble getting by or are feeling powerless and where there's a sense that our trajectory into the future is fraught with significant dangers.

And if our topic is the possible development of a move towards fascism in Western (and other) governments, we probably ought to recognize that the present conditions are ripe for that. And we really ought to recognize that the notion that there is almost nothing to approve of or support in the existing order and that there is almost no one whom we can trust seems a pretty certain recipe to the realization of such fascism.



0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Sun 18 Dec, 2022 06:01 am
@blatham,
Quote:

Quote:
Since 90% of mainstream media is in the pocket of the dominant political party and they direct that magnitude of propaganda to the public, it is far safer for anyone other than this consortium of criminals to have control of Twitter.

State controlled media is Fascism. It’s what we had. Many of us knew it. Don’t be concerned, tho—that same fascistic consortium still runs most American news media, Facebook, et almost al. and will attack Musk or any owner who doesn’t comply with their pro-war, pro-corporate, anti-union agenda
.

Your thinking and education in all the above is awe-inspiring. Let's just take two points:
The very last person one might accuse of being pro-corporate is Elon Musk. Am I right or am I right?
And as to unionization...
Quote:
Tesla, Inc. is an American electric car and clean energy company which employs over 110,000 workers across its global operations,[1] without using trade unions. As of 2016 Tesla was the only major American auto manufacturer without a union in the United States,[2] as well as in Germany.[3] Tesla CEO Elon Musk has commented negatively on trade unions in relation to Tesla.
wikipedia

Lash, you're a waste of everyone's time. You haven't even had the grace and integrity to apologize for the disgusting posts you wrote on Paul Pelosi. I'm done with you. I sincerely hope others will ignore you as well.


Despite how he handles his own company’s relationship with unions, Musk is violently opposing the prevailing DNC FBI DHS narrative that silenced dissent about vaccines, our government’s response to Covid, the Wuhan clinic, Fauci’s long standing and problematic responsibility Re that clinic (gain of function experiments on Covid, financial windfall from vaccines), unauthorized surveillance and censorship via Twitter, school closings, a Covid-wrecked economy and SO MANY ADDITIONAL TOPICS. Musk’s acquisition has opened the floodgates of dialogue—and groups comprised of people with varying beliefs are able to discuss these previously taboo subjects the way the Constitution supported.

This site is full of people who support the suppression of speech.

revelette1
 
  5  
Sun 18 Dec, 2022 09:55 am
@Lash,
You do not seem to understand the difference between a rejection of speech and a suppression of speech.

Sure there is a suppression of such speech which disinformation such as spreading the false view of swallowing bleach will cure COVID or any of the other wild paranoid unsupported claims by conspiracy nuts. Such speech as that caused harm to those who believe those wild claims. Or spreading Russian propaganda which serves Russian objectives rather than US objectives. The whole purpose of the Russian propaganda program is to spread disinformation in order to spread chaos or harm to their enemies. The government is right in suppressing that speech, and luckily some private companies agreed.

But just talking about those claims is different from claiming those claims are true; even if in talking about it, you seem to think it might have some validity. On the other side, people are free to dismiss those claims and that would not be a suppression of speech.
Lash
 
  -3  
Sun 18 Dec, 2022 03:37 pm
One amazing feature of Twitter2.0 is the audio chatrooms where Musk and other newsmakers weigh in on different topics. I hope we don’t break the internet during the upcoming conversation with doctors, virologists, and whistleblowers who were suppressed and de-platformed when they challenged the DNC FBI DHS -controlled narrative about Covid, vaccines, the origin of Covid, and fauci’s relationship with the Wuhan Clinic, the vaccines, and the national narrative.

Very exciting.

Half of us feel like Morgan Freeman walking out into the light in Brubaker.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Sun 18 Dec, 2022 07:51 pm
It appears Musk is stepping down as COO.
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Sun 18 Dec, 2022 08:11 pm
@revelette1,
Trust me, there is suppression of speech...
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  0  
Mon 19 Dec, 2022 01:24 am
Jon Stewart with three excellent guests on Musk, Twitter and social media. It's all good but particularly the one of them who finishes the conversation. HERE
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 19 Dec, 2022 05:32 am
@Lash,
Quote:
https://i.imgur.com/Z9HN6hsl.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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