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Rising fascism in the US

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Mon 31 Jan, 2022 01:58 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
I'm still holding out the possibility of Trump fading a bit, but Pompeo or DeSantis would be just as bad.

There appears to be a growing fractiousness re Trump but I don't have great confidence it will continue. The whole Republican crowd is now so deeply cynical that anything like principle will be merely window dressing for electoral purposes. And yes, a replacement for Trump won't help much if at all. Again, because of the cynicism and lack of pretty much any principle - other than lust for power - which is now bedrock for this crowd.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Mon 31 Jan, 2022 02:18 pm
Quote:
Trump’s 2024 campaign is about revenge. We should be very frightened.

If and when Donald Trump runs for president in 2024, his will be a campaign devoted to revenge. Take all the ugliness, the anger, the race-baiting, the hate-mongering and the fetishization of violence that characterized his prior campaigns, and multiply them tenfold. That’s what’s in store for all of us.

Trump’s revanchist campaign will have many targets, but his greatest enemies are democracy and the rule of law itself. He made that clear this past weekend, when he took a new step in his long campaign to turn the horrific Jan. 6 insurrection into a story in which he and his supporters are the real victims.

Trump has been unwavering in justifying the insurrection and defending those who carried it out, beginning while the violence was still in progress. “We had an election that was stolen from us,” he said in a short video issued that day while the rioters were still rampaging, telling them, “We love you, you’re very special.”

But at a rally in Texas on Saturday, he went further than he has before.

“If I run and I win, we will treat those people from January 6 fairly,” he said. “And if it requires pardons, we will give them pardons because they are being treated so unfairly.”

The practical implications of this pledge for the insurrectionists themselves may be small; nearly all are likely to have completed their sentences by the time Trump would take office in 2025. But the symbolic importance is enormous.

No president in history used his pardon power in as corrupt a fashion as Trump. Early on, he dangled the possibility of pardons as a message to those who helped him commit his misdeeds: Stay loyal to me, and I will make sure you are not punished for your crimes. And he followed through, pardoning a rogues’ gallery of former aides: Paul Manafort, Roger Stone, Stephen K. Bannon and Michael Flynn, among others.

But now, Trump is not just speaking to those who work for him; he’s talking to the whole population of his supporters, millions strong. If you commit crimes in my service, he says — even violent crimes, even insurrection against the government of the United States — I will protect you. Do your worst.

He also lashed out at prosecutors examining his financial shenanigans and his efforts to pressure officials into overturning the results of the 2020 election:

Quote:
If these radical, vicious, racist prosecutors do anything wrong or illegal, I hope we are going to have in this country the biggest protests we have ever had in Washington, D.C., in New York, in Atlanta and elsewhere, because our country and our elections are corrupt.

This isn’t an explicit call to mob violence, but combined with his celebration of the mob violence on Jan. 6, 2021, and his promise to pardon those who carried it out, the implication is clear: The appropriate response to the operation of the American legal system, if it doesn’t produce the outcomes you want, is to threaten it in the same way the electoral system was threatened a year ago.

Trump’s statements were so alarming that even some Republicans objected to them. Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) said, “I think it is inappropriate. I don’t want to reinforce that defiling the Capitol was okay,” while New Hampshire Gov. Chris Sununu denounced the idea of pardons. And a handful of more reasonable Republican governors are willing to say that Trump shouldn’t be their party’s leader, because it will lead to more defeat.

But if there’s an internal conflict in the GOP over Trump, he’s going to win it and his critics are going to lose.

You can point to some polls showing declines in Trump’s popularity among the large universe of Republicans. But his GOP critics won’t coalesce into coherent resistance. Most Republican officeholders represent conservative states and districts where his supporters dominate, so they can’t be too critical of him. Those who are have no national constituency; there is no organized movement behind, say, Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan.

So no Republican would beat him in a presidential primary. And if he is their nominee, what will happen? Once again, nearly every Republican will say, “I don’t agree with everything he says, but since the alternative is Democrats being in power, I’m behind him.”

Which will mean indulging Trump’s increasingly violent rhetoric and promises to abuse power and undermine the rule of law.

From now through 2024, Trump will steadily ratchet up his threats of lawlessness from both inside and outside the government he seeks to lead. And his fans will thrill to every moment of it. Just as in 2016 he told them to abandon civility and relish giving offense, in 2024 he will give them new permission to edge toward violence.

The difference between then and now is that the 2016 version of Trump felt that adherence to laws and norms — paying your taxes, obeying labor laws, telling the truth on loan applications — was for suckers, losers, people who didn’t have his ability to get what they want from the system.

But today, the system isn’t merely something he wants to circumvent and manipulate, it’s his enemy. It validates his election loss, it prosecutes him and his business, it resists him at every turn. And he wants revenge, both by winning in 2024 — with the help of a cadre of candidates who are all but promising to steal future elections on his behalf — and with a new presidential term that will make the previous one look upstanding and honorable.

Trump’s malignant presidency ended with an attack on both the Capitol and the American system of government. If he gets another chance, do you doubt he’ll bring even worse?

His threats are not just talk. They’re a terrifying preview of what’s to come, and we’d better pay attention.
Mame
 
  1  
Mon 31 Jan, 2022 02:22 pm
@blatham,
Well, we can pay all the attention we want, but what's to be done? Wringing hands and moaning never solved anything.

What actually can be done and by whom? If you're in Canada, you and I can do nothing. So who can and what should they do?

I say they should get on with the Jan 6 charges. Once he's in jail, he won't be a threat (do former Presidents get to go to a nice jail?). But you'll just have another wingnut right behind.
coluber2001
 
  1  
Mon 31 Jan, 2022 02:34 pm
@Mame,
I think Trump should be indicted, probably more than once, but I don't think he could ever be convicted because it would be impossible to find an impartial jury. We've got 74 million Trump enablers many of who wouldn't convict him under any circumstances. But it's important, if for no other reason than historical, to indict him. I think it's also important to make a statement against a man who would destroy our own system of government for his own purposes by indicting him.
Mame
 
  1  
Mon 31 Jan, 2022 02:47 pm
@coluber2001,
You know, I never thought about the jury - of course, you're right.

How about they bring in a law that says no president who has ever been impeached or indicted can run again?
BillW
 
  1  
Mon 31 Jan, 2022 05:03 pm
@Mame,
Impeached and founded guilty by the Senate - yes, can not run again.

Indicted and found guilty by a jury or Judge - yes, can not run again.
blatham
 
  2  
Mon 31 Jan, 2022 06:50 pm
The real danger to American greatness and civic health is not easily available guns. It's easily available books.
Mame
 
  0  
Mon 31 Jan, 2022 08:03 pm
@BillW,
Well, how can he run again? I presume the Senate didn't find him guilty when he was impeached? Is this a tempest in a teapot?
BillW
 
  0  
Mon 31 Jan, 2022 10:31 pm
@Mame,
He wasn't found guilty when he was impeached and he hasn't any felonies against him (at the moment) much less, found guilty.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Mon 31 Jan, 2022 10:34 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

The real danger to American greatness and civic health is not easily available guns. It's easily available books.
According to Republicans. (Just wanted to add that little caveat Bernie 🤔😉🤗
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 2 Feb, 2022 07:45 am
@Walter Hinteler,
"Why does the education system promote this stuff?"
I took a look at the situation here in Germany and thought that the very conservative Bavaria (school is a state matter here) might ...

So I took a short trip to the Internet portal lesen.bayern.de of the State Institute for School Quality and Educational Research (ISB) of the Bavarian Ministry of Education.

No such luck.

There, along with detailed "didactic advice", "Maus" is recommended as school reading.
The small review says: "The true story with sometimes shocking images is structured as an animal fable (...) Through the animal metaphor, Spiegelman succeeds in maintaining a certain distance to the narrated (and unrepresentable) horror. At the same time, this metaphor also reacts to animal metaphors of National Socialism by turning the talk of vermin into its opposite and revealing its inhuman and terrible character. Documentarily accurate, authentic and harrowing, this story of the fate of Polish Jews during the Holocaust can justifiably be called a classic and should still not be missing from any comic book (or history) staple."
(Source)
Lash
 
  0  
Wed 2 Feb, 2022 08:16 am
@Walter Hinteler,
It appears to me that either profound ignorance or Holocaust denial is driving this school banning of Maus.. There are also books attempting to show realistic situations among young black Americans that are being targeted by conservative parent groups. Examples: Dear Martin, The Hate You Give.
Lash
 
  1  
Wed 2 Feb, 2022 10:29 am
@Lash,
Related: Whoopie Goldberg made a bone-headed comment about the Holocaust.
“The Holocaust was not about race.”

She’s been sent to the woodshed for two weeks. Expected to return to work.

Is that ‘disinformation’?
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Wed 2 Feb, 2022 10:58 am
@Lash,
No it's ignorance. Goldberg was talking out of her arse, but I don't think she was malicious and she apologised straight away once her ignorance was pointed out.

To call such a clumsy and stupid act disinformation is a bit of a stretch.

If you want to put your conspiracy hat on you can say that this has done Israel a huge favour.

She said this on the same day that Amnesty International issued a report showing Israel is guilty of apartheid. Later the same day, the British woman gang raped by Israeli students in Ayia Napa won her appeal following a conviction for lying about the assault.

That's right she was gang raped and then prosecuted for reporting the crime. And we still don't know if the rapists will be prosecuted.

Both of those stories were conveniently knocked off the headlines by Goldberg's antisemitic bullshit. Instead of the Israeli foreign minister being interviewed about the Amnesty report we've got a representative of the Jewish Leadership Council talking about Goldberg's comments and antisemitism in general.

How's that for bloody disinformation?
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Wed 2 Feb, 2022 02:53 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
The Holocaust was not about race.

I don't think it was so much bone-headed as naive; Goldberg was probably thinking about the distinction between races and ethno-religious groups, and she was correct that European Jews are considered to be "white". Not Aryan but still white. But Hitler did refer to the Jews as a race. The thing is, Hitler was a bigoted anti-Semite, not an anthropologist, so why accept his classification?

The answer, of course, is that the victims get to have the last word. Goldberg's bigger mistake was doubling down and trying to explain herself. It wasn't a matter of disinformation – more like a variant violation of political correctness.
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 2 Feb, 2022 03:19 pm
@hightor,
Precisely my take.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 2 Feb, 2022 04:32 pm
https://scontent.fyvr3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/273161754_467699621616678_6780540888816250569_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Y1SkGjVPzvMAX_fz4p3&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr3-1.fna&oh=00_AT8tkiNJP8rzDHeWZAt9GL7-8TPs81HBqneZCKYZ0O9tLw&oe=6200EC2E
NealNealNeal
 
  -2  
Wed 2 Feb, 2022 04:48 pm
@Lash,
The stupid comments of Whoopie Goldberg gives us an indication of the evil of "progressives".
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 2 Feb, 2022 05:28 pm
@blatham,
Re my post above... Paul Vieira is the Canadian correspondent for the Wall Street Journal. I've just listened to the Ottawa police chief's briefing and Vieira has reported verbatim.

I'm acutely interested in the two aspects of funding and organization for this protest which originates in the US. If anyone bumps into good reporting on that, please let me know. Use private message if you prefer.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Wed 2 Feb, 2022 09:21 pm
@NealNealNeal,
She’s not a progressive. Obv from her statement.
 

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