Rising fascism in the US

Great post, Walter! Thank you.

I hold quite the opposite position, Mame. I think he'd be forgoing his responsibilities as leader to say otherwise because what he says is true and this needs to be better understood.

Also, it is the case that the criticism which Lash is forwarding - it's divisive - is a typical attack the right mounts when criticized or when their dogma is challenged. The most obvious example right now is the commonplace complaint from FOX and other such voices that the Jan 6 investigation is a bad thing because it divides Americans. Same complaint following Biden's Jan 6 speech Biden's divisive, deceitful Jan. 6 disgrace. Likewise any moves in the direction of gun control. Likewise Obama's moves to implement a more merciful and universal healthcare system. Likewise mail-in voting or curbs on gerrymandering. Etc etc etc.

And always - I do mean always - this complaint is unidirectional. It never applies to the modern right. McConnell can block Garland using a rationale with no precedent historical nor legal and then turn around and violate that rationale in order to get another conservative on the SC and do so with full support of his party with absolutely NO thought to whether it might be divisive.

Or take Bannon's admitted strategy on messaging helpful to his cause - "Spread the zone with ****". By which he means misinformation, disinformation and lamplighting designed to spread confusion in order to divide.

Which all winds up in a massive ball to illustrate the title of this thread:

The "Rising Fascism in the US"

I'm afraid so. One small, positive sign here is that the big legacy media operations are finally beginning to recognize the danger to US democracy. This sort of response is still deeply inadequate but there is a change. Whether the American experiment survives is uncertain.

"uncertain"

Trudeau didn’t use the term ‘anti-vaxxers’.
There are people who aren’t Trumpers, misogynists, racists, or baby killers who have good reasons not to get a vaccine. The Prime Minister of Canada has no right to endanger them by inciting the public against them.

Of course, he didn't do that.


A proper example of incitement would be what Trump and crowd did before and on Jan 6.

Another would be FOX's Gutfield “We are a country of fighters, and we will do it again by February 1st. Because, you know what? We can. We've got the Second Amendment. We run this country.”

Another would be the anti-vax agitprop which resulted in stones being thrown at Trudeau by anti-vaxers in September.

There has been no instance I've come across in Canada or the US of violence being either perpetrated or threatened against those who are unvaccinated. On the other hand, there have been countless instances of anti-mask and anti-vax extremists perpetrating violence and physical assaults on store clerks, flight attendants, security personal in retail outlets, other masked shoppers, etc.

All of which makes your claimed concern for "incitement" directed entirely in the wrong direction. But that's the propaganda game you're playing. Again.

Here's the interview in question. It's in French but there are English subtitles.
Here

Your reply is written like you can see a way for hospitals to handle the influx from a multi-year pandemic....by talking about how easy it is handle once off instances of one or two people being infectious (which I mentioned they could do)... and failing to address any of the complexities I mentioned - what happens when 20 infectious people show up, 100 infectious people show up (how long would your line be? And if only 5 are admitted to a hospital bed...and will be there for a week...and 5 are admitted every day....you need room for 35 infectious patients)......what happens if it is more than that, like happened in New York?....what happens to the staff fatigue when it happens day after day for years...

That aside, it bamboozles me that you appear to think that the people in charge of hospitals haven't already thought of everything they can to help their hospitals cope - and that every hospital in the country faced with the same situation comes up with similar solutions...and yet each of them is somehow similarly incompetent in your view (There are ways to do this.)

No... it's bureaucracy I'm talking about. I'm sure many health care professionals have already thought of what I've suggested and other things as well. I'm sure they're as frustrated as hell. But bureaucracy moves slowly and there are incompetents in every field at the higher levels. Also, many people don't want to be the first to do something different, buck the system, so they just plod away. I worked in a hospital for several years, and a nursing home for several more and have attended many a meeting and witnessed many boner decisions.

Although I dislike commenting on the politics of any other country, I feel the way Trudeau feels on the issue...and I do not see his remarks as being off base in any way.

I say, "Good for him for telling it like it is."

Yup.

I agree with about 99% of what you say 99% of the time. I agree that, as a leader, he should be forceful when he feels it's needed, but I feel he went too far when he clumped people who haven't gotten vaccinated in with misogynists and racists. As I said, I know of several unvaccinated people and they are certainly not misogynists and racists. I can see how that would be divisive and insulting to them. It just wasn't necessary.

The anti vaxxers are misogynistic, racist and bigoted.

They are organised, and has already been pointed out the groups have been around for a long time.

They are not the same as people who cannot have vaccinations, nor are they the same as those who are frightened of the vaccine.

I don't know anybody who hasn't been vaccinated.

The people I am speaking of have never been to a protest and most are women. Relatives, friends and neighbours. I'm only referring to the people I know, not those organizing protests and riots. And some have since gotten vaccinated.

I doubt very much that Trudeau was talking about them.

This is what he actually said...

Given how he tempers his statement, this is an accurate depiction of the situation he faces and of the modern far right. It's perhaps more evident when looking at the US but it's true here as well and becoming more so up here as disinformation/misinformation and bigoted ideas pour across the border and around the world. I've spoken elsewhere with a surprising number of anti-vaxxer Canadians who believe Trump won the election, for example.

There are also anti-vaxxers who just don't believe the vaccinations work, or think it's being blown out of proportion, or who don't want to be told what to do who are otherwise normal and rational people. They're not extremists who think it's a hoax or there's a chip in it and whathaveyou.

My main issue is that I really dislike labels and labelling people instead of their behaviour. It disenfranchises people.

I'm fed up with them, too, and would like them to reconsider, but calling some of them out as misognysists and racists is not helpful. We can all concede there are some (m & r's) out there, but there's nothing we can do about it, and hectoring gets us nowhere.

I was just a little shocked that Trudeau came out with that. It's not his usual way of speaking. He could have made a forceful point without resorting to it, so I guess we'll just have to disagree.

Individual Beauracracies move slowly, but individual beauracracies:
- create different strategies
- have people with different ideas at the top
- have different cultures; etc
- the above is true within systems as well (eg different hospitals belonging to the same company will have heads who do things differently)

...And there are hundreds (if not thousands) of different beaucacracies in the covid related health system in the US. So it is hard to use an argument of not a single one of them being able to buck "the system" when there are many, many systems in play...but they all still struggle.

Omicron and vaccination status in NYC