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Rising fascism in the US

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Sat 8 Jan, 2022 09:52 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Well, that's good news. Those must be interesting cases to follow. Have there been successful prosecutions?


If memory serves, she was one of those people who wanted Hillary to lose because Bernie Sanders had not been chosen as the candidate. I can understand people preferring Bernie to Hillary, but to help Trump win because Bernie lost is beyond imagination.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 8 Jan, 2022 10:09 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
Have there been successful prosecutions?
I cannot find the reasoning online, only a December 1 press report (follows translated) in the Legal Tribune Online:
[Süddeutsche Zeitung reports about] An undated decision of the Bavarian Supreme Court, by which the use of so-called Jewish stars by corona deniers and others who feel persecuted can in future also lead to convictions for incitement of the people (trivialisation of the Holocaust). Courts had so far predominantly rejected this because the use of the yellow star did not refer to the mass killing of Jews in National Socialist Germany, but only to their deprivation of rights. In contrast, the BayObLG now found that the star symbolised the entire Holocaust. The conviction of a local AfD ["Alternative for Germany" party] politician, who had wanted to denounce the exclusion of his party with a corresponding poster, had also not been objected to by the Federal Constitutional Court, which had rejected a constitutional complaint filed against this in September without giving reasons.
Lash
 
  -1  
Sat 8 Jan, 2022 10:18 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

I am profoundly not surprised that you emerge pushing a popular far right piece of propaganda. It's what you do. It's what you've always done.

Presently in BC, 70% of those hospitalized with covid are unvaccinated. In the last year in Canada, hospitalizations from covid break down as follows:
Partially vaccinated - 3277
Fully vaccinated - 3705
Unvaccinated - 40, 287

The analogy of vaccine/masking mandates with Naziism and treatment of Jews in last century Germany is a central propaganda device being pushed on FOX and across far right media operations (and from far right politicians) in North America, Europe and elsewhere. These are the same entities and persons who manifestly are the predominant voices pushing racist and bigoted ideas out to
their audiences and countries.

Another key element in this present agitprop campaign is the insistence that singling out unvaccinated (by choice) persons is destructive because it is "divisive". This is, the story goes, unhealthy for the civic well-being of the nation, like criticizing or indicting white supremacists or theocrats.

There really is nothing quite so similar to the mid-century Nazi propaganda campaigns as all the modern negative and divisive singling out and criticisms of neo-Nazis.



I agree that asking people to wear masks or get a vaccine being compared to nazism is ridiculous. I don’t think anyone in this thread did that—I certainly didn’t.

But, a drumbeat in the media and by Prime Ministers and presidents vilifying a segment of society in language that foments hatred and could lead to violence against that group does take a page out of the type of propaganda that eventually led to the German citizenry acquiescing to the Holocaust.

Thanks, by the way. This is another great example of how entrenched partisans dismiss facts that diverge from their party’s narrative.

I guess just straight straw man.
Lash
 
  0  
Sat 8 Jan, 2022 10:24 am
@Frank Apisa,
I didn’t say a word about masking or vaccines. It did not need to be said.

I take issue with Trudeau’s rhetoric.

Straw man.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Sat 8 Jan, 2022 10:50 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Yes. Bound to be tricky in writing and prosecuting such law.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Sat 8 Jan, 2022 11:11 am
@Lash,
Quote:
I agree that asking people to wear masks or get a vaccine being compared to nazism is ridiculous. I don’t think anyone in this thread did that—I certainly didn’t.

From your original post quoting a restauranteur and the leader of Canada's very far right party describing Trudeau as a "fascist psychopath".
Quote:
She maintained that he should have known better as “certain things” are better left unsaid as they could bring up unwanted memories dating back to the discrimination during The Second World War...“He is coming out with such polarising things. We are not allowed to say this but certain things happened during the Second World War.

And, of course, this analogy is a staple of far right agitprop on mandates and vaccines.

Quote:
But, a drumbeat in the media and by Prime Ministers and presidents vilifying a segment of society in language that foments hatred and could lead to violence against that group does take a page out of the type of propaganda that eventually led to the German citizenry acquiescing to the Holocaust.

Oh yeah. Hate those drumbeats. Next thing people will be thinking poorly of drug pushers and drunk drivers and those with AIDS who have sex with others or criticism of tobacco companies. Exactly the same as anti-Semitic propaganda.


blatham
 
  2  
Sat 8 Jan, 2022 11:44 am
@blatham,
Just checking down a bit, in the original post from Lash, Tonia Buxton is described as a TV Presenter with GB News. Another presenter with GB News is Nigel Farange. Another is Jason Miller.
Lash
 
  -1  
Sat 8 Jan, 2022 11:49 am
@blatham,
But the QUOTE I CITED was by Prime Minister Trudeau. Anything to say about that?
Lash
 
  -1  
Sat 8 Jan, 2022 12:02 pm
@blatham,
Yeah, I brought that piece for the headline, proving the worst part of Trudeau’s quote—linking people who don’t want vaccines with misogyny and racism.

Bringing an article never before made a member immediately culpable for all the opinions in the article.

This is such a textbook case of how partisans writhe around to avoid reason or address a legitimate issue that’s unpopular with their team.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sat 8 Jan, 2022 12:17 pm
@blatham,
Far right sources. GB News is too right wing for Andrew Neil.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Sat 8 Jan, 2022 12:19 pm
@Lash,
Trudeau is right anti vaxxers are by and large far right misogynistic scum.

They got off on spreading diseases, knowing they are responsible for the death of someone, like the NRA get off on school shootings.
hightor
 
  3  
Sat 8 Jan, 2022 01:13 pm
"Anti-vaxxers" represents a distinct group of the non-vaccinated population. There are also other people who, for various reasons, haven't become vaccinated. I don't think anyone is criticizing those who have medical reasons to avoid getting the shot. There are also timid people who fear developing some side effect down the road. There are procrastinators, there are loners, and there are people who have only a small circle of social acquaintances and stay away from crowds.

But when we talk about "anti-vaxxers" it means a very specific group of people, people who have been recruited to politicize a ******* pandemic. And guess what – it wasn't the arrival of the pandemic that created this movement. They were already here. All they needed was some political leadership (like the GOP) and some friendly media (like Fox News). And if you look at their ranks you see the same collection of nativist, christianist, anti-feminist, crypto-racist, gun-loving, anti-science, anti-EU, anti-tax, anti-democratic principles and beliefs which someone once described as a "basket of deplorables". No, it's not a coincidence. The pandemic has been seen by the right as an opportunity to foster greater alienation from democratic ideals. Anti-vaxxers are pawns in a much larger game.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.z-9SUZjxaKh7KU4OVl4YCQHaE8%26pid%3DApi&f=1https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.c8LZU7GTxLVmeVmpYaVLdAHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1
hightor
 
  2  
Sat 8 Jan, 2022 01:54 pm
@hightor,
Let's play "what if" –

What if Trump had won in 2020? Trump was poised to promote mass vaccination (if not masks, social distancing, and lockdowns). He saw the vaccines as his solution to the pandemic. The anti-vaxxers in this case would have been the groups long-opposed to vaccines, anti-MRM people, those who cite vaccines as causing autism, with leaders like Robert Kennedy, Jr.

Now, you can be sure that Trump would find some way of using the pandemic to further divide the country. Maybe it would have been masks, I don't know. But I don't think his administration would have been anymore successful than Biden's has been. And it's likely that Trump haters would be the ones rallying to support the vaccine refuseniks. But all these bleeding-heart conservatives who are currently so concerned about protecting the anti-vaxxers freedom of choice would be playing a different role. Trudeau could have said the same thing but this time the "fascist psychopaths" would be supporting him. When it comes to sowing division and dissent it's any port in a storm.

0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 8 Jan, 2022 01:56 pm
@hightor,
In Germany, already in the 19th century, areas in and around Stuttgart and Dresden were strongholds of vaccination opponents, "anti vaxxers", ... and still are today.

This is where what was then called the Lebensreform ("life reform movement") gathered.
These are naturopathic currents, esoteric, anthroposophical currents. They are mobilising against modernity, so to speak, which is penetrating the world of life in the form of industrialisation and urbanisation.

And this is being fiercely fought, so to speak, especially with a return to the natural way of life, as they say. And vaccination is of course the prime example.

The tendency towards far-right positions was already evident in the first Lebensreform movement. More than 150 years ago, its protagonists shared the longing for a "holistic existence" in an "organic order". Their romanticised look back was directed at the supposedly natural, harmonious pre-modern era. The current criticism of the state measures against the pandemic is again accompanied by a rejection of modernity.


Quote from the Wikipedia article "Lebensform"
Quote:
Right-wing radicalism
A specific stream based on völkisch Romanticism gradually became part of Nazi ideology by the 1930s, known as blood and soil. As early as 1907, Richard Ungewitter published a pamphlet called Nudity and Culture (which sold 100,000 copies), arguing that the practices he recommended would be "the means by which the German race would regenerate itself and ultimately prevail over its neighbours and the diabolical Jews, who were intent on injecting putrefying agents into the nation's blood and soil".[9]

The extremists promoting rightwing ideology eventually became popular among Nazi Party officials and their supporters, including Heinrich Himmler and Rudolph Höss, who belonged to the right-wing farming organization the Artaman League. When other groups were being banned or disbanded due to political conflict during the 1930s, the extreme nationalist ideology became connected with National Socialism. The German Life Reform League broke apart into political factions during this time. The Nationalist physician Artur Fedor Fuchs began the League for Free Body Culture (FKK), giving public lectures on the healing powers of the sun in the "Nordic sky", which "alone strengthened and healed the warrior nation".[10] Ancient forest living, and habits presumed to have been followed by the ancient tribes of Germany, were beneficial to regenerating the Aryan people, according to Fuchs' philosophy. Hans Sùren, a prominent former military officer, published Man and the Sun (1924), which sold 240,000 copies; by 1941 it was reissued in 68 editions. Sùren promoted the Aryan master race concept of physically strong, militarized men who would be the "salvation" of the German people.[11]
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 8 Jan, 2022 02:41 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Since there were today quite a lot of larger anti vaxxer demonstrations in Germany ....

Federal Health Minister Karl Lauterbach told the "Welt am Sonntag" (Sunday newspaper, paywall) that the debate of vaccination opponents and corona deniers has lost all measure and aim. "A small group is willing to wipe all scientific findings off the table and voluntarily enter a bubble of bogus truths," said the SPD politician. This is a new and frightening development in German post-war history, he said.

In an article for "Focus Online" (online version of a weekly magazine) published on Saturday (link) the designated CDU leader Friedrich Merz wrote: "Among the demonstrators are not only notorious perpetrators of violence, but more and more citizens who have led a completely normal life up to now, and who let themselves be carried away to excesses of hate and violence by conspiracy theories, fear scenarios and dubious 'experts' in matters of health and corona."
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Sat 8 Jan, 2022 04:14 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
But the QUOTE I CITED was by Prime Minister Trudeau. Anything to say about that?

I'm fine with what he's said. As you may or may not be intelligent enough to recognize, no anti-vax voices have been quieted through violence (which is what's being fear-mongered by the right) whereas hundreds of thousands have already been killed unnecessarily by the anti-vax propaganda campaigns (and the "covid is not dangerous" campaigns) promoted on the right and which you are now pushing.
Lash
 
  -1  
Sat 8 Jan, 2022 04:20 pm
@blatham,
You’ve become moderately insane.
I’m not pushing anti-vaccination in the least.
I haven’t mentioned vaccination at all except in the small context of Trudeau’s inflammatory comment, vilifying unvaccinated people as “misogynistic and racist.”

Mame
 
  2  
Sat 8 Jan, 2022 04:24 pm
@Lash,
He didn't "vilify" anyone. He said many of the anti-vaccinated are mysogynistic and racist. Others here have agreed with that. They're probably right.

I'm just thinking of the unvaccinated who I know and I know they're not, but likely there are many I don't know who are.

Why I found it appalling is that he is a leader and I don't think that's the kind of thing he should be saying.

He won't even call China out, for Pete's sake.
blatham
 
  1  
Sat 8 Jan, 2022 04:25 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
Yeah, I brought that piece for the headline, proving the worst part of Trudeau’s quote—linking people who don’t want vaccines with misogyny and racism.

As noted by hightor, there are a varied set of voices and motivations behind vaccine hesitancy and not all are unreasonable or motivated by deeply immoral motivations. But it is clearly and obviously the case that the anti-vax propaganda campaigns are being pushed by the same set of voices which also push bigoted notions regarding race, faith and "proper" role of females. Thus no surprise at all that the operation you've linked at the beginning features precisely such people as Farage and Jason Miller. Likewise it is no surprise that you would end up happily receiving such crap in your inbox or via some community of like-minded thinkers and be so sadly unaware of how you shoot yourself in the foot once again by posting it.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Sat 8 Jan, 2022 04:34 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
And if you look at their ranks you see the same collection of nativist, christianist, anti-feminist, crypto-racist, gun-loving, anti-science, anti-EU, anti-tax, anti-democratic principles and beliefs which someone once described as a "basket of deplorables".

Yes. That's exactly right. These are intersecting sets. And what binds them is a virulently anti-government ideology (unless they are the government), a powerful affinity for authoritarianism, and profit-taking (what FOX does gains Murdoch the most significant amount of his profits worldwide, just one example among thousands).
0 Replies
 
 

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