40
   

I'll Never Vote for Hillary Clinton

 
 
Builder
 
  -1  
Sat 4 Jun, 2016 07:38 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
Got any answers, Builder?


To why you're rabitting on about income in this thread? It's nothing to do with my original comment at all.

But don't let details get in the way of your ego, buddy.

Hillary will continue the status quo of the NWO. She's made that clear as sec of State.

The fed reserve is "creating" 4 billion a month to prop up the stockmarket, so the gamblers can keep gambling.

That makes a mockery of anything you want to draw graphs for.

Blickers
 
  2  
Sat 4 Jun, 2016 07:55 pm
@Builder,
Your original statement was that the middle class was disappearing and that people were falling into poverty. What makes the middle class? Jobs and income. We found out that Full Time jobs are not disappearing, and we also found out that inflation-adjusted weekly earnings are going UP, not down. When that didn't work, you tried saying that median household income was going down, until it was pointed out that fewer people are living in the average household now than 20 years ago, and also a greater percentage of households now are people living on retirement income instead of being in their prime working/earning years. You need less money to keep up your standard of living when you are retired because your house is already paid for and the kids are grown and moved out, usually.

When your median household income statistic was taken apart, you suddenly switch from trying to quote statistics proving the middle class is disappearing to ranting about how Hillary is bring in the NWO so no statistics matter at all. You've really made a fool of yourself.
snood
 
  1  
Sat 4 Jun, 2016 08:01 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

It's called free speech. Good speech is simple so all can understand. My boss at Florsheim taught me that.


Yeah, no. Simple -minded.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Sat 4 Jun, 2016 08:02 pm
An open letter from Jill Klein to California.

http://www.jill2016.com/open_letter_to_ca_voters

So glad to finally witness the formation of a new, overdue American political party.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  -1  
Sat 4 Jun, 2016 08:02 pm
@Blickers,
You want to backtrack? You didn't address this one at all, so I'll post it again.



Quote:
....based on calculations by the Vanderbilt political scientist Larry Bartels. It shows that from Harry Truman to George W. Bush, income gains under Democratic presidents have been greatest for those at the bottom and tapered off as you moved higher up the income distribution. Precisely the opposite has occurred under Republicans: The income gains were greatest at the top and tapered off as you moved further down the income distribution. The difference evaporated above the 95th percentile; the top 5% did about as well under Democrats as under Republicans. Still, below the 95th percentile the partisan difference was dramatic. I know no stronger evidence that Republicans are the party of the rich and Democrats the party of the middle class and the poor.

Obama’s presidency is a break with this tradition. Under Obama, income gains have been concentrated at the top and nonexistent (or, if you count taxes and transfers, quite small) in the middle and at the bottom. That’s not really Obama’s fault; he has done what he can, most notably with Obamacare and Dodd-Frank.

The real problem is that the economic forces at work since 1979, hugely exacerbated by decades of conservative government policies — of which tax policy is only one, and hardly the most important — have gotten steadily more difficult to change. Inequality is now extremely difficult to reverse, even for a president who’s made reversing it a top priority.


Source
Blickers
 
  2  
Sat 4 Jun, 2016 08:21 pm
@Builder,
Having people at the top getting richer quicker while the people in the middle and bottom stay the same or advance slowly does not mean the middle class is disappearing. It means it is still there, more or less keeping pace with the times, but the rich folks are getting a greater percentage of the goodies. The middle class still has their houses, as will their kids. The middle class will still have multiple cars, as will their kids. The middle class will still live longer lives than their parents, on average, as will their kids. It only means that the small percentage at the top with the big money gets even bigger money-it doesn't mean that the middle class is disappearing at all. Your failure to understand this, after pages and pages of arguing about random statistics and nonsense conclusions to be drawn from those statistics proves that you are here not to discuss, but to scream the Sky Is Falling then turn obnoxious and snarling when it turns out the sky isn't.

By the way, one of the marks of middle class life is having your kid go to college if he wants to. The following is the percentage of people between 18 and 24 enrolled in college, from 1996 to 2012.

1996.....35.5%
1997 .....36.8%
1998 .....36.5%
1999 .....35.6%
2000.....35.5%
2001 .....36.3%

2002 .....36.7%
2003 .....37.8%
2004 .....38.0%
2005 .....38.9%
2006.....37.3%
2007 ......38.8%
2009 .....41.3%
2010 .....41.2%
2011......42.0%
2012......41.0%

Doesn't look like a disappearing middle class to me. Or anyone else.
Lash
 
  1  
Sat 4 Jun, 2016 08:47 pm
http://billmoyers.com/2015/01/26/middle-class/
Of course the middle class is disappearing.

Lash
 
  1  
Sat 4 Jun, 2016 08:52 pm
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6507506
Charts, graphs, and a dead middle class.

Blickers
 
  1  
Sat 4 Jun, 2016 09:32 pm
@Lash,
I don't care what Moyers says, the middle class is clearly not disappearing. The jobs are recovered from the Full Time job loss of 2008-9, median weekly earnings are rising higher than they were before the crash, and a greater percentage of our kids are going to college than ever before. That's not a shrinking middle class.

Linking to the Huffington Post doesn't change that.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Sat 4 Jun, 2016 09:55 pm
@cicerone imposter,
He is talking reasoning, not grammar.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  0  
Sat 4 Jun, 2016 10:07 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
Charts, graphs, and a dead middle class.


Oh, but they're only legitimate if they agree with his premise, Lash, and if you don't agree with his premise, then you're nasty and lashing out. LOL. Lashing out. Chuckles. It's Sunday roast time here. Enjoy the Lashing. :-)

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6507506

Builder
 
  0  
Sat 4 Jun, 2016 10:23 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
Having people at the top getting richer quicker while the people in the middle and bottom stay the same or advance slowly does not mean the middle class is disappearing.


Sounds like you're still a believer in the Trickle Down theory.

I'll list a few pundits who all say the middle class is disappearing.

This from USA Today.

Quote:
Disappearing middle class jobs
Mark Lieberman, 24/7 Wall St. 8:06 a.m. EDT March 8, 2015
24/7 Wall St. reviewed traditionally middle class occupations that, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), are expected to contract in the 2012-22 period. These jobs often require no more than an associate degree and tend to offer only minimal to moderate on-the-job training.

The jobs that are projected to shrink range from office-related occupations such as couriers and messengers, word processors, and switchboard operators to light manufacturing machinists such as extruding and drawing machine setters, operators, and tenders who work with metal and plastic.

"A lot of these jobs are disappearing because in part of the increased use of the Internet and company intranets," observed Martin Kohli, chief regional economist at the BLS.


This from CNN Money;

Quote:
America's disappearing middle class
By Tami Luhby January 28, 2014: 6:00 AM ET

Fewer and fewer people are feeling middle class these days.

The share of Americans who describe themselves as middle class has taken a tumble, while the percentage who identify as lower class has soared over the past six years, according to a recent survey by the Pew Research Center/USA Today. The share of Americans who consider themselves upper class has also shrunk.

This downward shift is likely due to falling wages and the weak job market, said Rakesh Kochhar, associate director for research at the Pew Research Center's Hispanic Trends Project. The survey notes that median household income fell from $55,627 in 2007 to $51,017 in 2012, the most recent Census data available. And employment in middle-skill jobs increased only 46% between 1980 and 2009, compared to 110% for low-skill jobs, according to a New York Federal Reserve Bank analysis.

"Despite the economic recovery, the economic mood continues to head south," Kochhar said.


More recent story from USA Today.
Quote:

The U.S. job market is expected to grow by about 7% over the next decade. At that rate, roughly 10 million more Americans will be employed by 2024.

However, these new jobs are not likely to be created evenly across all occupations and industries. The nation’s middle class has been shrinking at what some call an alarming rate, and even as the nation’s job market is expected to grow, demand for many mid- to low-skilled, primarily middle class positions is expected to rapidly decline. The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) projects a loss of hundreds of thousands of such jobs in the coming years due to outsourcing and the development of new technology.


And a more damning report implicating the fed from Forbes.com

Quote:
Jun 7, 2014 @ 12:01 PM 8,836 views
The Little Black Book of Billionaire Secrets
Middle Class Jobs Are Disappearing And The Fed Is The Culprit

Jeffrey Dorfman
Two big disappointments in the recent recovery have been the sluggish job growth and the continued underemployment of many people who had solidly middle class jobs before the recession but are now struggling to make ends meet with much lower incomes. Rick Newman recently detailed how routine jobs which used to help populate the middle class are disappearing. Essentially, lots of low-wage jobs are hard to automate and the same is true for most high-skill jobs. Unfortunately, many middle class jobs are “routine” according to the Dallas Federal Reserve Bank and can be automated. Thus, machines replace people and we get a jobless recovery. What is missing from this story is the villain, but I can reveal its identity here.


There's plenty more where this came from. So dream on, Blickers. I'd accept your apology, but coming from you, it'd be worthless.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  0  
Sat 4 Jun, 2016 10:26 pm
@Builder,
Full Time jobs are recovered and then some from the Full Time job loss of 2008-9, median weekly earnings are rising higher than they were before the crash, and a greater percentage of our kids are going to college than ever before.

I don't see any responses containing facts from either of you, just links. Figures.

Have I upset you folk's poor little system of not really knowing what you are talking about, but internet searching until you find something that sort of backs you up? I'm so sorry.
Lash
 
  2  
Sat 4 Jun, 2016 10:27 pm
@Blickers,
Yes it does goofball. It's widespread common knowledge. You've been brainwashed. Snap out of it.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  1  
Sat 4 Jun, 2016 10:36 pm
For instance, Forbes.
Quote Forbes:
Quote:
Two big disappointments in the recent recovery have been the sluggish job growth and the continued underemployment of many people who had solidly middle class jobs before the recession but are now struggling to make ends meet with much lower incomes

Unfortunately for Builder, Lash, George and the Prophets Of Internet Doom, median weekly earnings, adjusted for inflation, have gone UP, not down. Observe median weekly earnings in constant 1982-84 dollars:

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah279/LeviStubbs/Median%20weekly%20earnings%20May%202016_zpstjmhcyee.jpg
$346 in 1982-84 is worth $817 now.

You have an opinion from a conservative magazine that incomes are going down, I have FACTS which show they're going UP. I win. What's next, chumps?
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  0  
Sat 4 Jun, 2016 10:38 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
I don't see any responses containing facts from either of you, just links. Figures.


Just all the major commentators on the US "recovery". You'll only ever see what you want to see, so I guess you'll always ignore facts.

This condition of yours is widely recognised as cognitive dissonance. Enjoy.
Blickers
 
  2  
Sat 4 Jun, 2016 10:43 pm
@Builder,
Enjoy the fact that I give you FACTS, you give me the OPINIONS of magazine article authors. And you, Lash, and George all get madder than wet hens when I point out that opinions don't stand up to actual facts. Of course, then you, Builder, mentally spazz out completely and starts saying that facts don't matter, Hillary is here to put in the NWO and we'll all be slaves. So how much does your opinion count, or those who are philosophical buddies with you?

Just to remind everyone, median weekly earnings are going up. As is employment the last two years. And there is a greater percentage of 18 to 24 year olds in college than ever before.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah279/LeviStubbs/Median%20weekly%20earnings%20May%202016_zpstjmhcyee.jpg
Builder
 
  1  
Sat 4 Jun, 2016 10:50 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
And you, Lash, and George all get madder than wet hens....


I'm giggling here. You make a lot of assumptions, and this is just another one of them.

The "opinions" in those op-eds are based on...... wait for it..........facts. Enjoy.

Roast dinner time here.
Blickers
 
  1  
Sat 4 Jun, 2016 10:54 pm
@Builder,
And yet, you are unable to produce those facts on the forum. You just quote the magazine writer for a sentence or two, link the article, and think you've rebutted an actual chart or study. You haven't. And the fact that you don't understand that is not my problem.

Over 13 Million Full Time jobs created since the recession ended in Jan 2010. Higher median weekly earnings then before the crash. These are not opinions, these are statistics.
Builder
 
  0  
Sat 4 Jun, 2016 11:25 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
And yet, you are unable to produce those facts on the forum.


I already have, straight from the US census report. But, like we've already established, due to your cognitive dissonance, you're choosing to ignore the facts.
 

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