I'll Never Vote for Hillary Clinton

We lost so you cheated is a total misrepresentation of fact. I can't discuss it with you. You are too partisan to see any of it.

I think there is a a lot of room between expecting better of him and accusing him of inciting violence and failing to condemn it. I have already said that I would prefer he condemn certain behavior of some of his supporters more stridently I just don't see cause to make the leap to concluding he has not done so at all and has, in fact, incited it.

No disagreement here, where I part company with some of you here is to conclude that failing to condem it stridently or explicitly enough means he has failed to do so entirely or even incited it.

I share the opinion that he is having a hard time letting go when he should and have my qualms with his end game here too, but I just personally don't see the claim that he is inciting, condoning of failing to condemn this behavior. He's just doing it badly in my personal take (which doesn't bear repeating any further).

I never said he is inciting. I'm saying he's smart enough not to flirt so closely with condoning it.

Do any of the Hillary folks accept that the State party, and the Clinton campaign, have any responsibility for the events in Nevada? It was their show, they ran the process.

And there were all kind of things that they could have done to make the process run better. Any objective look at the facts will show that the rules were changed, and that motions were squelched... all of these things were provocative actions taken by the pro-Hillary leadership of the convention.

The Clinton campaign needs to show leadership. They won. They will set the tone of their campaign. They will get the benefits of unifying the party or the consequences of failing to do so.

The party establishment has the power and the responsibility that comes with it. If the party establishment chooses to squelch dissent and stifle voices of people who should have a place in the party, it isn't surprising that this happened. I am not saying that the Bernie supporters didn't act badly, nor am I saying that they don't bear the responsibility for their actions (particularly the threats and the slurs). They can both act badly... but the party leadership had the most power to make sure that things ended well.

It is a question what would have happened had the Nevada Democratic party, with the support of the Clinton campaign, had tried to reach out to the Bernie supporters with understanding and respect. I believe that the result would have been constructive (with maybe a little jostling) and that the majority of people could have left feeling energized and understood (if not united).

Based on the actions of the party leadership we will never know.

Didn't mean to imply you said so. It was engineer who said he was inciting it and "whooping up the violence". Then you replied to my reply to him while I was still talking about that. But I just noted engineer is referring to a video of someone in his campaign that I have not seen and not Bernie's speech. So I may well be missing something that does qualify as incitement.

Ralph, I mean Bernie is doing everything he can to get Trump elected. And Lash and Edgar cant really believe all the crap they post. It should be obvious that Bernie dont give a damn about anything but being president. He is wrong to refuse to calm down his chair throwers and bat wielders.

Thank you, edgarblythe. Very informative video.

Basically Bernie the god lied through his teeth just as he has since he started running. Deny it if you want to but anyone who can read knows who started the riot.

He wants to elect Trump just Like Lash and Edgar.

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Contentious supporters of the two rivals for the Democratic nomination turned the selection of Nevada’s national delegates this weekend into a virtual battlefield, with the chairman gaveling the proceeding to a peremptory close and fleeing the stage while armed guards cleared the meeting venue.

The spectacle of Democratic Party officials railroading through a ruling favorable to Hillary Clinton while denying certification to some 58 Bernie Sanders delegates to the state convention comes on top of charges that caucuses and primary votes around the country have been manipulated to beef up Clinton’s much-touted lead in national delegates.

Democrats have reason to worry that similar chaos could overtake a contested national convention in July as the strong-arm tactics of party officials from Democratic National Committee chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz on down provide little incentive for Sanders or his supporters to go quietly into the night.

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Opinion Journal: Can Hillary Break Losing Streak?(12:40)
Deputy Editorial Page Editor Dan Henninger and Editorial Page Editor Paul Gigot offer a preview of Tuesday’s primary contests. Plus, Donald Trump's tax returns and Obama's war record. Photo: Getty.

In fact, as the federal investigation of Clinton’s use of a private server for official emails continues to loom over her campaign, Democrats are risking a perfect storm combining the chaos of their 1968 convention in Chicago and the creeping disclosure that overtook Richard Nixon’s Committee for the Re-Election of the President.

Nixon won re-election in 1972 in a landslide even though a relatively harmless-seeming dirty trick — the break-in into DNC offices in the Watergate complex — was the subject of investigative reporting by the Washington Post and other news media.

That break-in, of course, proved to be the tip of an iceberg of malfeasance, bribery and criminality in the Nixon campaign machine that led to impeachment proceedings and the first resignation of a president in U.S. history.

The story of uncovering this scandal was a breathless drama with serendipity and grit in equal measure, making heroes of the two Post reporters — Carl Bernstein and Bob Woodward — and resulting in a bestselling book and enthralling film, “All the President’s Men.”

Are there similarities between the protracted Watergate scandal and the investigation into Hillary Clinton’s email server?

Woodward and Bernstein both have at times suggested there are, though at other times they seem to pooh-pooh the idea.

Clinton, of course, has affected a total lack of anxiety about the whole brouhaha, arguing that many of her predecessors had used private emails, that she broke no laws and that classified information was not compromised.

The FBI reportedly has some 50 agents investigating the matter, interviewing top Clinton aides and presumably Clinton herself at some point, while separate civil proceedings under the Freedom of Information Act will also depose many of those involved.

However, if there are any reporters digging away at the background to all this, they have yet to publish any revelations. That could well be because there are no revelations to discover.

But it could also be that we simply don’t have a Woodward or Bernstein, backed by an editor like Ben Bradlee and a publisher like Katharine Graham, willing to take on the government — or a Deep Throat ready to spill the beans, like the Post’s anonymous source, later revealed to be an associate director of the FBI.

Hillary Clinton is not running for re-election, but she has cast her candidacy as a third term for Barack Obama, the rival who beat her out in 2008, and as a reprise of her husband’s two terms in the 1990s.

With the Democratic Party establishment solidly behind her, she is running in many respects like an incumbent.

Is the email server issue, like the Watergate break-in, merely the tip of the iceberg? There is a whole right-wing conspiracy out there suggesting the secrecy guaranteed by a separate server has successfully hidden millions of dollars in pay-to-play contributions to the Clinton Foundation and directly to the Clintons, who have amassed a fortune in “speaking fees.”

The wheels of justice will grind slowly. Absent a new “Deep Throat” and reporters willing to listen and publish, there is little chance that official investigations will impede Hillary Clinton’s political fortunes in campaigning for the White House this year.

In the meantime, Sanders and his passionate supporters continue to offer an alternative to Clinton’s warmed-over version of progressive policies and a candidate carrying a potentially fatal load of baggage in a fight that could well go to a chaotic convention floor.

It was the 1968 Democratic Convention that marked a whole generation with its images of street riots and convention floor chaos as the party establishment railroaded through the nomination of Hubert Humphrey, who had not taken part in any of the primary elections (only 13 at the time), over antiwar candidate Eugene McCarthy.

Among the many ironies in this year’s crazy campaign is that even as the mainstream media headlines the “unraveling” of the Republican Party, Trump is slowly getting the GOP to coalesce around his candidacy and it is the Democrats, with their blinkered support of a candidate who has felt entitled to the presidency for years, who face greater risk of unraveling.

The Democratic Party is harming itself. It is alienating a very large segment of the population. There are many millions of people who are no longer slumbering. They're awake now, they see the corruption at every turn, and they're not going to remain silent.

You're minimizing and condescending. It isn't just edgarblythe you're waving away with a dismissive attitude ... it's millions of people. You can tell them they're not justified in feeling angry ... but they know what they know. They're not going to bend over. The thing about justified anger as an emotion is that it is a motivating emotion. Change is coming ... the people are motivated.

This post is also dismissive. Some people acted badly when "parliamentary tricks" were used to suppress their voices when they wanted to participate in an important political event. They were treated unfairly. The chairwoman moved things along to reach the predetermined results. No meaningful participation was allowed. We're not talking about "facked moon landings". And millions of people know what they know. And they don't like that your ilk is painting them with a broad brush and equating them to conspiracy theorists.

Quote Debra Law:

Apparently they aren't motivated enough to get their ass down to town hall before the election and put in their change of party registration so they can vote in the closed primaries. You are guaranteed to vote in the November election. You are not guaranteed to vote in any party's primary. Fact is, up until 1968, there were only 12 states that even ran primaries, all the other states had their state organizations send delegates to the national convention and they bargained for it. Now you people are screaming that your "rights" are being infringed.

The title of this thread is "I'll Never Vote for Hillary Clinton". Maybe you forgot that important factoid. My back is turned on the Democratic Party ... I won't vote for Hillary. I doubly won't vote for her when I see how dismissive Hillary supporters are with their words and their thumbs down.

We aren't dismissive. However, hard core Sandersistas are complaining about "voter suppression", and it's BS. Voter suppression is being denied your vote in November. Voter suppression is not requiring you to register beforehand as a member of the party in whose primary you wish to vote for. The party in question determines that, and has always determined that.

Why don't you write to him and say so. You don't support Bernie Sanders, you don't support his democratic ideals, you don't support his inclusiveness, you don't care what anyone else has to say on the matter. You're not convincing the "I'll never vote for Hillary Clinton" to become Hillary Clinton voters. Just give me my five thumbs down and move on.

Very thoughtful post, maxdancona. I agree the party leadership should have listened and been more responsive to the concerns of all the attendees; instead they chose to steamroll over them. That's not the kind of conduct that unifies ... it divides.

I think you have that wrong. I think Hillary and Hillary supporters and the Democratic Party are doing everything they can to get Trump elected. They are alienating millions of people.