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I'll Never Vote for Hillary Clinton

 
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Tue 17 May, 2016 05:03 pm
@engineer,
Ugh.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  3  
Tue 17 May, 2016 05:12 pm
I've still been considering voting for Sanders in the primary though leaning more toward Clinton in the last few weeks, while knowing Clinton would be the Dem candidate and get my vote in the general.

I'm over all that, he'll not be leading me. His behavior has been putting me off, which is sort of sad, in that I liked a goodly part of his views; was more questioning of his capacity to govern. I sent in my absentee ballot application signature and stuff just this morning, should get my ballot soon. Now I'm clear on my vote.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Tue 17 May, 2016 05:41 pm
Dems' new fear: Sanders revolt could upend Democratic convention

Quote:

(CNN) — Sen. Barbara Boxer, a veteran of Democratic politics, says she never saw anything quite like this before.

Loud cursing, shouting, obscene gestures and vile insults, including crude comments about the female anatomy. It was all on display over the weekend as supporters of Bernie Sanders turned the Nevada State Democratic Convention into chaos.

"I was not able to stop these people for doing what they did," Boxer, a Hillary Clinton supporter, told CNN. "Apparently they've done it before. .... This group of about 100 were very vocal, and I can't describe it -- disrespectful doesn't even explain it, it was worse than that."

Boxer is hardly the lone Clinton supporter to experience such harassment on the campaign trail. Several top Democrats told CNN publicly and privately that the energy and enthusiasm of Sanders supporters has at times descended into incendiary attacks that threaten to tear apart efforts to unite Democrats against Donald Trump. Several female senators told CNN the attacks have been misogynistic.

What's more, many Democrats fear that if Sanders does not rein in his supporters, the same ugly scene that occurred in Las Vegas last weekend could replicate itself in the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia.
snood
 
  1  
Tue 17 May, 2016 06:53 pm
@revelette2,
"Could replicate"? Hell Rev, I half suspect Bernie and the Bernie crowd are looking forward to making as big a mess of the convention as they can. You know, as a righteous protest, and all that.
engineer
 
  2  
Tue 17 May, 2016 06:54 pm
@edgarblythe,
Let's look at that "blistering response".

Paragraph 1
Quote:
“It is imperative that the Democratic leadership, both nationally and in the states, understand that the political world is changing and that millions of Americans are outraged at establishment politics and establishment economics. The people of this country want a government which represents all of us, not just the 1 percent, super PACs and wealthy campaign contributors.


No apologies for the direct actions of his campaign to incite violence, no condemnation of the violence.

Paragraph 2
Quote:
“The Democratic Party has a choice. It can open its doors and welcome into the party people who are prepared to fight for real economic and social change – people who are willing to take on Wall Street, corporate greed and a fossil fuel industry which is destroying this planet. Or the party can choose to maintain its status quo structure, remain dependent on big-money campaign contributions and be a party with limited participation and limited energy.


No apologies for the direct actions of his campaign to incite violence, no condemnation of the violence.

Quote:
“Within the last few days there have been a number of criticisms made against my campaign organization. Party leaders in Nevada, for example, claim that the Sanders campaign has a ‘penchant for violence.’ That is nonsense. Our campaign has held giant rallies all across this country, including in high-crime areas, and there have been zero reports of violence. Our campaign of course believes in non-violent change and it goes without saying that I condemn any and all forms of violence, including the personal harassment of individuals. But, when we speak of violence, I should add here that months ago, during the Nevada campaign, shots were fired into my campaign office in Nevada and apartment housing complex my campaign staff lived in was broken into and ransacked.


Complete denial of responsibility even though there is video of his operatives inciting violence and plenty of recordings of his followers making threats to party officials. He also takes the "they started it" excuse.

Paragraph 4
Quote:
“If the Democratic Party is to be successful in November, it is imperative that all state parties treat our campaign supporters with fairness and the respect that they have earned. I am happy to say that has been the case at state conventions in Maine, Alaska, Colorado and Hawaii where good discussions were held and democratic decisions were reached. Unfortunately, that was not the case at the Nevada convention. At that convention the Democratic leadership used its power to prevent a fair and transparent process from taking place. Among other things:


Still no denunciation of the violence and the implication that they had it coming to them.

Accusations of Wrong Doing to Sanders
Quote:
The chair of the convention announced that the convention rules passed on voice vote, when the vote was a clear no-vote. At the very least, the Chair should have allowed for a headcount.
The chair allowed its Credentials Committee to en mass rule that 64 delegates were ineligible without offering an opportunity for 58 of them to be heard. That decision enabled the Clinton campaign to end up with a 30-vote majority.
The chair refused to acknowledge any motions made from the floor or allow votes on them.
The chair refused to accept any petitions for amendments to the rules that were properly submitted.

These "charges" are complete fabrications as shown in previous posts, but now we know that it comes right from the top.

When a Trump supporter attacked a protester and Trump supported him, everyone thought that was terrible, but now we have the Sanders campaign intentionally spreading disinformation, whipping up violence in an effort to take over political discourse and Sanders himself supporting it. This man is in no way qualified to be home owner association president, much less President of the United States.

Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Tue 17 May, 2016 06:59 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
..no condemnation of the violence.


Not in that one section you quoted but when it does come later on* in the very text you are quoting you ignore the condemnation and find other things to criticize him for and go on to say "Still no denunciation of the violence" when it's right in the middle of the text you are quoting.

I have seen his campaign condemn the violence several times, I don't think this claim is entirely accurate.

* "Our campaign of course believes in non-violent change and it goes without saying that I condemn any and all forms of violence, including the personal harassment of individuals"
engineer
 
  2  
Tue 17 May, 2016 07:11 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
Our campaign of course believes in non-violent change and it goes without saying that I condemn any and all forms of violence, including the personal harassment of individuals. But, ...

Yes, I don't believe in violence, but I have an excuse.
edgarblythe
 
  0  
Tue 17 May, 2016 07:44 pm
http://heavy.com/news/2016/05/nevada-democratic-convention-what-happened-roberta-lange-delegates-election-fraud-videos-recount-denied/
Nevada Democratic Convention: Stories of Voter Suppression
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  1  
Tue 17 May, 2016 07:44 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Bernie Sanders, as quoted by Robert Gentel:
Quote:
"Our campaign of course believes in non-violent change and it goes without saying that I condemn any and all forms of violence, including the personal harassment of individuals"


Everybody condemns violence. Nowhere in that statement was there the slightest acknowledgement that Bernie Sanders supporters committed violence.

This is dealing with supporters' violence? How?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Tue 17 May, 2016 07:46 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Surely you can see the implicit blessing Bernie gives with his lukewarm, offhand "I don't condone those things" statements, and in the passive-aggressive encouragement of the hotheaded booing every time he repeats his criticisms of Hillary. Surely you can see that.
revelette2
 
  1  
Tue 17 May, 2016 07:54 pm
This will not do Sanders any favors unless he quits his defiance and come out strong against the violence without qualifiers.

Bernie Sanders under fire after Nevada convention chaos

Quote:
Bernie Sanders is remaining defiant in the face of calls from Democratic leaders to condemn unrest fomented by his supporters follow the Nevada Democratic State convention Saturday night — doing little to cool the passions of some of his supporters and prompting concerns of a fractured national convention this summer.

Sanders supporters threw chairs, started fights, and booed officials, including a top Sanders surrogate, at the convention in Las Vegas, which was the final step in allocating Nevada’s delegates to the Democratic National Convention. The supporters felt the party had conspired against them to tip the scales in favor of Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton.

After the convention, the party’s headquarters were vandalized with pro-Sanders graffiti and the chairwoman of the party received threatening text messages, phone calls, and social media posts.

All this over very low stakes — just two pledged delegates out of more than 4,000 total Democratic delegates.

edgarblythe
 
  1  
Tue 17 May, 2016 07:56 pm
The strong arm tactics, voter suppression and the like have been going on from the beginning of the campaign. Much of it out in the open for any to see who are not too partisan to look. Some Sanders supporters lost their tempers in the face of in your face cheating in Nevada. So now Clinton people want to blame Sanders and the rest of his supporters rather than the specific ones that acted. We have complained of the criminal and undemocratic acts of Clinton and the Democratic party for months, with no results. I hope fervently that most of Sanders supporters turn their backs on the Democrats in November.
Blickers
 
  5  
Tue 17 May, 2016 08:00 pm
@edgarblythe,
Sorry edgar, but your idea of voter suppression is that independents who had not registered as Democrats before the closed primaries were not allowed to vote in the closed primary. That's not my idea of voter suppression.
DrewDad
 
  3  
Tue 17 May, 2016 08:12 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
We have complained of the criminal and undemocratic acts....

That's quite an equivalency, there.

This "we lost so they must have cheated" meme really doesn't have any legs beyond the Sanders camp. It rings of conspiracy theories about faked moon landings.

I've been in meetings where parliamentary tricks were used to suppress dissent. I didn't throw any chairs, or threaten anyone (or their kids).
snood
 
  4  
Tue 17 May, 2016 08:21 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
I hope fervently that most of Sanders supporters turn their backs on the Democrats in November.

Well, I guess everyone needs something to hope fervently in.
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Tue 17 May, 2016 08:30 pm
@snood,
He might not be condemning it harshly enough for my tastes but no I do not see him tacitly condoning it in that speech, I see him simply wanting to minimize the focus on the bad behavior of some of his supporters, just like I don't see any other candidates condemning the bad behavior of any of their own supporters too stridently.
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Tue 17 May, 2016 08:35 pm
@engineer,
I guess I just don't see those words you are putting in his mouth when I read between the lines. I see him wanting to bring up other violence to minimize the notion that it is particular to his campaign, I see him wanting to focus on better optics as is natural (if self-serving) but just don't see the incitement that you are talking about or the lack of a condemnation. I have seen it condemned, literally, several times and though it's not as strident as I'd like I don't think it is accurate to say he has failed to do so and has "incited" the violence.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  4  
Tue 17 May, 2016 08:49 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:

He might not be condemning it harshly enough for my tastes but no I do not see him tacitly condoning it in that speech, I see him simply wanting to minimize the focus on the bad behavior of some of his supporters, just like I don't see any other candidates condemning the bad behavior of any of their own supporters too stridently.

Obama was exceptional when he stopped his supporters from booing his opponent. I guess that's too much to expect of Sanders.
revelette2
 
  3  
Tue 17 May, 2016 08:59 pm
@Robert Gentel,
He should just say it straight, without any mention of cheating or campaigning. He should just put out a straight statement condemning the violence, the threats to those present at the Nevada convention and to their family members and leave it at that. Then it would be over and accepted. If he feels he was cheated (Yet again) at Nevada, then surely there are ways to bring it to a resolution which does not involve threats or violence. The way he wrote that long letter it was as though he was giving excuses for their bad behavior while giving a tepid condemnation of it. Kind of like having his cake and eating it too.
Lash
 
  0  
Tue 17 May, 2016 09:02 pm
@revelette2,
Hillary Clinton can kiss her presidency goodbye. The cheating and lying has reached a fever pitch. Any violence that happened is in direct response to being cheated.

It's just like what goes on here. The usual suspects are openly fabricating narratives that they know aren't true. And for your troubles, welcome to President Trump.

Nice work.
 

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