40
   

I'll Never Vote for Hillary Clinton

 
 
snood
 
  6  
Tue 17 May, 2016 08:47 am
@edgarblythe,
Can't he be the only candidate "with half a worthy agenda" who can be an ass sometimes?
Can't those two things be true at the same time?
edgarblythe
 
  0  
Tue 17 May, 2016 10:10 am
placing this anonymously. It was posted on another site by someone I don't know:

Bernie is the only candidate who has spent his entire life fighting for our civil, social, and political rights. He's a once in a lifetime candidate, we can't afford to screw this up!

The middle class is financially decaying, our infrastructure is failing, our seniors, disabled need financial help, our WAR VETS need help, it is WAY past time for American Citizens have access to a National Healthcare System.

Bernie wants a single-payer health insurance system. Hillary wants to strengthen Obamacare. Hillary will make your health insurance even more expensive. Mine is currently $475/month (compared to my $25/month car insurance from Insurance Panda, or my $10/month dental insurance, but I digress). Hillary is in bed with big pharma.

Bernie has always stood up for the rights of the oppressed. Hillary has always stood up for the rights of bankers and Wall Street. We have a choice. #FeelTheBern
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  4  
Tue 17 May, 2016 10:13 am
@snood,
I think so, but then, I am not the one asked. He needs to work on his expressions, imo.

http://i1.wp.com/espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/ap_16137592238372-e1463484294118.jpg?quality=70&strip=all&w=575&ssl=1

Voted today. I didn't like the way the ballot format was laid out. They didn't have democrat or republican beside the names of those running. I usually vote straight democrat, couldn't do that today. Luckily, I think I did ok. I went and looked it up afterwards when I got home to make sure. (KY) Republicans had their caucus in March but apparently it was only for the presidential spot.

Your 2016 Primary Voter Guide: Federal Elections
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  5  
Tue 17 May, 2016 11:28 am
@revelette2,
Let's also not forget Sanders supporters making death threats against children because no one would change the rules just for them after they lost the vote.
revelette2
 
  2  
Tue 17 May, 2016 11:44 am
@engineer,
It is shameful, despicable and an embarrassment. Why do they think we should write new rules just for Bernie Sanders? He should have never been allowed to run as a democrat, he is single handily destroying the party from within.

snood
 
  2  
Tue 17 May, 2016 12:11 pm
@revelette2,
I don't think he's destroying it, but he's definitely taking a huge dump right on their front porch. He "joined" just to take advantage of party affiliation, and has no allegiance to the party. I actually don't give a crap about loyalty for the sake of loyalty to anyone's club or party or brand, so I can understand that type of independence. But I don't like the way he has used the moniker of Democrat strictly to serve his own ends.
engineer
 
  6  
Tue 17 May, 2016 01:26 pm
@snood,
I don't think he joined "just to take advantage of party affiliation". In the two party system, he is clearly of the Democratic persuasion. At this point, it seems a lot more like sour grapes. He sees those big crowds and he thinks he is the guy, but he's somehow lost. He wants to complain he hasn't been treated fairly, but he's been treated with kid gloves and still lost the popular vote, the direct delegate vote and been crushed in the endorsement vote (which has to sting since he knows a lot of those people.) Every statement he makes sounds more bitter and every disclaimer issued about the violence of his supporters sounds more tepid. I was of the opinion that Sanders was a pretty decent guy and would be an ok if ineffectual President, but that is really starting to change. I'm rapidly getting to the opinion that Sanders has neither the temperament nor the political skill for the position. Standing on the corner ranting that the end is coming and calling for everyone to take up arms and burn the place down is what cult leaders do, not political visionaries.
DrewDad
 
  3  
Tue 17 May, 2016 01:35 pm
@edgarblythe,
I'm in agreement, in principal, with a lot of what Sanders says.

I dislike the whole "you're either with me or against me" and "Sanders is sans peur et sans reproche" vibes that I get from a lot of his followers, present company included.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  3  
Tue 17 May, 2016 01:39 pm
Concerning the Nevada convention.

Quote:
By the time hotel security shut down the event late Saturday evening, the Sanders delegates had hurled ugly epithets at Clinton surrogate Barbara Boxer, and used a sign to block her from being shown on big screens; screamed vulgarities at state Chairwoman Roberta Lange, who later received death threats after Sanders sympathizers posted her cell phone number and home address online; and threw chairs at the stage as they rushed forward to try to take control of a convention they had lost, just as Sanders was defeated at the Feb. 20 by Clinton in in a decisive result.

The next day, a group of Sanders supporters protested at the state Democratic Party headquarters and scrawled messages ('Murdered democracy" and "You are scum" among them) on the outside walls and nearby sidewalks.

Sanders, who had national campaign operatives on the floor at the Paris, has yet to comment on the near-riot his local operatives enabled as they poured gas on a fire that started with a lawsuit against the party and ignited after arguments about rules, voice votes and rejected delegates.

Despite their social media frothing and self-righteous screeds, the facts reveal that the Sanders folks disregarded rules, then when shown the truth, attacked organizers and party officials as tools of a conspiracy to defraud the senator of what was never rightfully his in the first place.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Tue 17 May, 2016 01:48 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

I don't think he joined "just to take advantage of party affiliation".

I do. He's had a foot in both the Democrat and Independent camps for some time. Both Sanders and the Democrats might be more liberal than the Republicans, but I get the sense that he's just been walking on the same side of the street, not joining the parade.

Now that he wants to run for President, it's convenient for him to run as a Democrat and use the Democratic party to get on the national ticket.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  3  
Tue 17 May, 2016 01:59 pm
Letter from the Nevada Party General Counsel to the Democratic Party HQ

Quote:
We believe, unfortunately, that the tactics and behavior on display here in Nevada are harbingers of things to come as Democrats gather in Philadelphia in July for our National Convention. We write to alert you to what we perceive as the Sander Campaign’s penchant for extra- parliamentary behavior—indeed, actual violence—in place of democratic conduct in a convention setting, and furthermore what we can only describe
as their encouragement of, and complicity in, a very dangerous atmosphere that ended in chaos and physical threats to fellow Democrats. Indeed, the threats to the Chair of the Nevada State Democratic Party are ongoing at time of this writing, as Sanders activists have posted her cell phone and home address online, and have bombarded her with threats to her life and the safety of her family.


Quote:
The explosive situation arose in large part because a portion of the community of Sanders delegates arrived at the Nevada Democratic State Convention believing itself to be a vanguard intent upon sparking a street-fight rather than attending an orderly political party process. Surprised and outraged at the idea of being out-organized and thus outnumbered in the convention hall by Clinton delegates, a portion of the Sanders delegation rushed the dais immediately upon the opening of the convention and halted the progress of any convention business for much of the day. Indeed, every point during which Sanders delegates did not agree with any aspect of the proceedings saw them press up against the dais and scream obscenities and threats at the Chair, First Vice Chair, and any other speaker.


Quote:
The Sanders Campaign spent its time either ignoring or profiting from the chaos it did much to create and nothing to diminish or mitigate. It was clear to the NSDP that part of the approach by the Sanders Campaign was to employ these easily-incensed delegates as shock troops to sway the convention proceedings. At the very least, these delegates became a way for the Sanders Campaign to seek the advantage of disruption at any particular moment while trying to disavow any responsibility for their actions even as it was ongoing. At no time did any Sanders representative make anything more than token gestures towards peace in the hall, and at the times of most intense crisis offered little more than shrugs and smirks.

The most egregious instance of the Sanders Campaign inciting disruption—and yes, violence—came as the State Convention’s Credentials Committee completed its work. Adam Gillette, part of National Delegate Operations Team for the official Sanders Campaign, drafted and arranged for a member of that committee to attempt to deliver an incendiary, inaccurate, and wholly unauthorized “minority report” charging that the
Credentials Committee had fraudulently denied 64 Sanders delegates their eligibility. The final delegate count had provided the Clinton Campaign with a 33 delegate advantage in the hall; one can imagine the rage occasioned by this inflammatory charge, tossed into the tinderbox of a tense convention hall. Not only did this discredit the work of the Credentials Committee—which featured five Sanders delegates and five Clinton
delegates and a Sanders co-chair, and who worked all day under extremely trying conditions to be fair and diligent in their duties—it called into question the entirety of the proceedings because it indicated to an irrational minority that the proceedings had been rigged against them. Forcing their way onto the dais to deliver this paranoid fantasy of fraud and delegate theft was clearly intended to throw the proceedings into disarray.


I've excerpted this for brevity, but the link has the entire letter.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  3  
Tue 17 May, 2016 02:33 pm
An interesting take that resonates after the violence in Nevada.

Quote:
You want me to go all in on SuperDelegates overturning the will of black and brown voters, as expressed in diverse primary after diverse primary, because Bernie has tapped into the angry white man vote? Have you Bernie supporters completely lost your minds? In what UNIVERSE am I supporting the guy who is being buoyed by “white rage” over the person who has won more votes without it?

Bernie is telling us that he can essentially re-direct an angry mob of white people, and sic them on their true enemy. Trump is telling this same group of people that “the Hispanics” are to blame for their problems. Or China. Bernie offers “the banks” as responsible for their problems. Or global trade. Both of them play into the central conceit of the white male voter: that something was taken from them, by somebody else, and they have to fight to get it back.

Bernie and Trump are fighting to make Bruce Springsteen a cultural touchstone again. The rest of us are drinking Lemonade.

The only way the Democrats can lose this election is if they make it about the Trump voter. **** the Trump voter. This election is about more than who white people should blame for losing jobs that they never shared with women and minorities anyway. I really don’t give a good Goddamn about who the Downtrodden Coal-Miners Union of ‘Merica thinks will be best at turning back the clock to 1956.

Bernie Sanders is, of course, welcome to continue to fight on behalf of disaffected white people everywhere. But he can’t be the nominee. He can’t go to the convention and argue that his pissed off white support is somehow more valid than all the votes and all the delegates Hillary has won from a far more diverse cross section of the Democratic party. White people are no longer the dispositive affinity group in the Democratic party tent. Sorry guys. This is how it feels like when you have to make friends with other interest groups in order to get ahead. I’m sure the LGBT community has a pamphlet or something that you can read.

This is, by the way, the same terrible argument about centrality of white working class support that Hillary herself was making in 2008. Literally. In ‘08, HRC positioned herself as the choice of white people you needed to win the general election, and she hung in there with it right up until the convention.

But Barack Obama proved that if you turn out minority voters, women, and white men with a college education, you can run a freaking black guy and there’s nothing poor white people can do to stop it. It’s a lesson that Hillary seems to have learned.

I expect a good guy like Bernie Sanders will learn it too, before the end.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Tue 17 May, 2016 02:58 pm
engineer
 
  1  
Tue 17 May, 2016 03:06 pm
@edgarblythe,
I've posted the letter from the Nevada party council detailing the truth. I guess some more Sanders lies are preferable. (Note that Sanders has directly supported the lies as opposed to letting his campaign do it. He has completely failed a significant leadership test.)
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  3  
Tue 17 May, 2016 03:14 pm
@edgarblythe,
All of this over a 2 (yes, TWO) delegate swing in a state that Clinton won by 5pts.

I mean, obviously that's worth these text messages that were sent to the chair.

http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/573b6f0e52bcd01a008c360e-922-517/screen%20shot%202016-05-17%20at%203.16.42%20pm%20copy.png
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  2  
Tue 17 May, 2016 03:15 pm
@edgarblythe,
Debunking the Sandersphere Myths about Nevada.

Quote:

Jon Ralston has long-been known as Nevada’s leading political observer, tough, smart and fair:

Quote:
Ralston’s account straightforwardly lays the blame for what happened at the Convention virtually 100% on the Sanders campaign and supporters. The Democratic Party, according to Ralston, did nothing at all wrong or unusual, and the riot resulted from misinformation deliberately fed to Sanders supporters, led by Congressional candidate Erin Bilbray and Sanders organizer Angi Morelli, who patrolled the area with megaphones, and abetted by numerous social media conduits in an intentional and organized effort to disrupt the convention.
maporsche
 
  1  
Tue 17 May, 2016 03:16 pm
The video ends with the young Turk saying that Hillary should have just won the state and gotten the votes that she ended up getting after all.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Tue 17 May, 2016 03:20 pm
You can paste and copy all the lies about the caucus you like. It was blatant fraud.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  4  
Tue 17 May, 2016 03:21 pm
@engineer,
That last line is what I have been thinking recently these days, I don't like when any political movement becomes about a cult of personality. Bernie's ideals are one thing but no single person is ever the only answer.

Many political campaigns turn into a cult of personality, I understand the dynamics of why. But at this point where there is really no path to nomination for Bernie it doesn't make sense to double down on him as the only answer. His message maybe, and fighting for that makes sense. But the man has essentially lost and it is better to fight to forward those ideals.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Tue 17 May, 2016 03:40 pm
Bernie Sanders has issued a blistering response to last weekend’s chaotic Nevada State Democratic Party convention, denouncing the entire process as illegitimate.

“It is imperative that the Democratic leadership, both nationally and in the states, understand that the political world is changing and that millions of Americans are outraged at establishment politics and establishment economics,” Sanders said in a public statement. “The people of this country want a government which represents all of us, not just the 1 percent, super PACs and wealthy campaign contributors.”

Nevada’s convention was fraught with controversy from the start. Thirty minutes before the convention officially began this past Saturday, Nevada State Democratic Party chair Roberta Lange passed draconian new rules via voice vote as delegates were still trickling in, before all delegates had an opportunity to weigh in on the process.

Lange then refused to allow a recount on the vote to adopt the new convention rules, and proceeded to exclude 64 of Sanders’ delegates from the convention proceedings without allowing 58 of them to plead their case, effectively giving the majority of the remaining delegates up for grabs to Hillary Clinton.

“Contrary to procedures and precedents set by the committee, nearly none of the 64 people were presented with the opportunity to be heard by the committee or to demonstrate that they are registered Democrats,” said credentials committee co-chair Leslie Sexton.

After 10 PM, when the convention was scheduled to end, Lange ordered state troopers present at the Paris Las Vegas hotel to lock the bathrooms and confiscate pizzas that Sanders delegates had ordered. When Sanders delegates tried to protest the results, Lange illegally ended the convention, then fled the building with a phalanx of state troopers escorting her out. In his statement, Sen. Sanders called on the Democratic Party to accommodate the younger voters that make up a majority of his base, or else risk a mass exodus of the new blood needed to sustain the party into the next generation.

“The Democratic Party has a choice. It can open its doors and welcome into the party people who are prepared to fight for real economic and social change – people who are willing to take on Wall Street, corporate greed and a fossil fuel industry which is destroying this planet. Or the party can choose to maintain its status quo structure, remain dependent on big-money campaign contributions and be a party with limited participation and limited energy.”

After a scuffle broke out on the convention floor, and several Sanders supporters leaked Lange’s personal cell number, and allegedly made threats against the Democratic Party leader and her family, the Nevada Democratic Party accused Sanders supporters of having a “penchant for violence.” Democratic National Committee chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz called on both the Clinton and Sanders campaigns to denounce the behavior of Sanders’ delegates. In his public statement, Sanders said it “goes without saying” that he condemns violent behavior, but also denounced the allegations that his supporters were violent as “nonsense.”

“Our campaign has held giant rallies all across this country, including in high-crime areas, and there have been zero reports of violence. Our campaign of course believes in non-violent change,” Sanders said. “When we speak of violence, I should add here that months ago, during the Nevada campaign, shots were fired into my campaign office in Nevada and [the] apartment housing complex my campaign staff lived in was broken into and ransacked.”

Sanders also listed the litany of undemocratic processes at the Nevada convention, implying the convention vote that gave Clinton a majority of pledged delegates was fraudulent:

The chair of the convention announced that the convention rules passed on voice vote, when the vote was a clear no-vote. At the very least, the Chair should have allowed for a headcount.

The chair allowed its Credentials Committee to en mass rule that 64 delegates were ineligible without offering an opportunity for 58 of them to be heard. That decision enabled the Clinton campaign to end up with a 30-vote majority.

The chair refused to acknowledge any motions made from the floor or allow votes on them.The chair refused to accept any petitions for amendments to the rules that were properly submitted.

Sanders and Clinton are both battling for pledged delegates today in the Kentucky and Oregon primaries.



Tom Cahill is a writer for US Uncut based in the Pacific Northwest. He specializes in coverage of political, economic, and environmental news. You can contact Tom via email at [email protected].
 

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