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I'll Never Vote for Hillary Clinton

 
 
snood
 
  1  
Wed 17 Feb, 2016 05:34 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

Blickers wrote:
Hillary is a different person from Bill, but I think they are both on the same page.


I'd say they're in the same book, but Ms. Clinton seems to be reading a more liberal chapter than her husband ever got to.


Yes! I think that's very true - and a reason to hope.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  3  
Wed 17 Feb, 2016 05:41 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

the difference (to an observer who finds both of them undesireable) is that the supporters of Ms. Clinton say they will vote for whoever the Democratic candidate is in the general election. The supporters of Mr. Sanders say (to a fascinating, if disturbing, degree ) that if Mr. Sanders is not the candidate in the general, they will not be voting Democratic.

It is a striking difference.


What I observe is a condescending attitude that Bernie Sanders has absolutely no chance of winning the party nomination ... I've heard, "no one is going to allow a socialist Jew" to win the nomination ... so, given their extreme confidence that the outcome is already predetermined, some of them might say they will vote for him if he gets the nomination.

But, I'm not a party disciple and I don't accept a predetermined outcome. I didn't vote in 2012 because Obama didn't even come close to honoring any of his campaign promises. Barack Obama won his re-election without me. If Hillary wants the white house, she'll have to do it without me. And that's the topic of this thread, "I'll never vote for Hillary Clinton."
snood
 
  3  
Wed 17 Feb, 2016 05:43 pm
@Debra Law,
Bernie might win. And folks like you who over-expected Obama and then grieved at his clay feet might be in the same damn situation. A lot might happen.
Debra Law
 
  2  
Wed 17 Feb, 2016 05:51 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

You Bernie guys never give Hillary any credit for having done anything good. Surely you don't think she's spent ALL her time figuring how to screw the American people "on the sly"?
Surely she had some time to support helpful legislation as senator, to help broker useful alliances as SOS?
I'm sorry, but it just seems like an open-ended, glaringly incomplete argument.

This is what the conversation feels like, in a way:
"I'm mad as hell at the system, and I'm not going to take it anymore!"
"Well, what can we do about it?
"Nothing! Let the worst of the worst lead the system; I'm going home!"



You're assuming Hillary has done some good. Do you have a concrete example?

If you want me to do something, then I will vote for Trump if he wins the Republican nomination. Maybe Trump is really a progressive who is pulling the wool over the eyes of conservative republicans ... and he's using their playbook to get them all fired up to vote for him.
snood
 
  1  
Wed 17 Feb, 2016 06:09 pm
@Debra Law,
Quote:
You're assuming Hillary has done some good. Do you have a concrete example?

I'll be more than happy to list a few things, if you tell me the reason you're assuming she hasn't done any good.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 17 Feb, 2016 06:15 pm
@snood,
From Snopes.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/achievements.asp
snood
 
  3  
Wed 17 Feb, 2016 06:20 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Did you read that, CI? Snopes is not debunking Hillary. Snopes is debunking a quote that someone was trying to attribute to her.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 17 Feb, 2016 06:22 pm
@snood,
Yes. I want facts to be shared, not hearsay.
snood
 
  2  
Wed 17 Feb, 2016 06:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
When you present a link with no commentary for context, people on a thread named "I'll never vote for Hillary Clinton" might jump to the conclusion that you are posting something that is calling Hillary a liar. And the link you posted is NOT doing that.

The link you posted has Snopes showing that some guy had been circulating a wuote of Hillary lying about her record, and that the quote had never happened - Hillary had never said it.

You're clear that that was what was on your link, right?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 17 Feb, 2016 06:33 pm
@snood,
How anyone jumps to conclusion is not my problem. Many will do that with or without facts.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Wed 17 Feb, 2016 06:37 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

Quote:
You're assuming Hillary has done some good. Do you have a concrete example?

I'll be more than happy to list a few things, if you tell me the reason you're assuming she hasn't done any good.


I have no concrete examples of the alleged "good" that you said that people like me have failed to recognize. I'm at a total loss. Nothing comes to mind. I even googled to try and find something to give her credit for ... and found nothing. Maybe you'll have better luck.
maporsche
 
  3  
Wed 17 Feb, 2016 06:39 pm
@snood,
That's what I'm worried about. I voted for the 'Hope & Change' candidate twice only to be let down. I like that Clinton at least knows how to get things done while in public office, even if those things are incremental.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Wed 17 Feb, 2016 06:40 pm
@Debra Law,
Debra Law wrote:

snood wrote:

Quote:
You're assuming Hillary has done some good. Do you have a concrete example?

I'll be more than happy to list a few things, if you tell me the reason you're assuming she hasn't done any good.


I have no concrete examples of the alleged "good" that you said that people like me have failed to recognize. I'm at a total loss. Nothing comes to mind. I even googled to try and find something to give her credit for ... and found nothing. Maybe you'll have better luck.


I doubt anything I find will satisfy you as something good she did, but I'll play.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Wed 17 Feb, 2016 06:40 pm
clickety click


Quote:
“I also hope that we all remember,” Sanders said during his acceptance speech after winning the New Hampshire primary, “and this is a message not just to our opponents, but to those who support me as well. That we will need to come together in a few months and unite this party, and this nation because the right-wing Republicans we oppose must not be allowed to gain the presidency.”

It’s a message that people really should take to heart. In a few months, this will be over and the Democrats will have a nominee who will be pretty good, whether it’s Clinton or Sanders. It’s just not worth causing all this collateral damage by hinting (however unintentionally) that women will never be good enough, no matter what they do, just to score some points that probably won’t even turn into real votes at the end of the day.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 17 Feb, 2016 06:41 pm
@snood,
I'll let this paragraph from Snopes speak on the subject.
Quote:
Hillary Clinton did sit for an interview with ABC's Diane Sawyer which aired on 9 June 2014, after which she was criticized by some commentators (as she had been before) for not being able to provide a succinct or definitive answer when questioned about her top or proudest accomplishments as Secretary of State. But nothing like the passage quoted above was spoken by Clinton during that ABC interview.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  2  
Wed 17 Feb, 2016 06:43 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

You're clear that that was what was on your link, right?


There is NO WAY that he really read that link before posting it like an idiot-troll.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Wed 17 Feb, 2016 06:43 pm
this is interesting

includes some of the stuff we learned about back in the 1980's when Hillary was seen as a bit radical

http://www.blogher.com/hillary-lifelong-champion-women-and-families
ehBeth
 
  2  
Wed 17 Feb, 2016 06:50 pm
@ehBeth,
Hillary's Record Says It All

Quote:
Maybe that's made it all too easy for some to forget that Hillary has been a leader on the front lines of progressive change for over 40 years. Ever since she went to work at the Children's Defense Fund right out of law school, she's been a tireless advocate for the least fortunate among us. But instead of reciting her entire biography, I just want to focus on one particular example.

There is a special program called Home Instruction for Parents of Preschool Youngsters, though most just call it "HIPPY." Originally designed in Israel, it's an amazing approach to helping parents prepare their children for school, and for life. And it was first brought to Arkansas by Hillary Clinton.

Hillary has always understood what science keeps telling us: that most of our kids' minds have already developed by age four. That means parents are positioned to be their kids' first teachers.

This isn't actually as daunting as it sounds. All you really need to do is talk and play with them in specific and nurturing ways.

But for a lot of parents, especially those juggling classes, full-time jobs, or both - that's a luxury they just can't afford. To make matters worse, many low-income parents never received much education themselves, so they may feel ill-equipped to provide kids with the proper enrichment.

That's where HIPPY comes in. This program gives parents all the materials they need to prepare them for language learning, math, and science, at every age up until kindergarten.

I first learned about HIPPY from my stepdaughter, Kathryn, who spent many years expanding its curriculum over the country - including in Arkansas when Hillary was working on it there too. Today, it's in 23 states, helping the most vulnerable kids in over 15,000 families nationwide.


this was considered a crazy idea when first brought to North America

__

I remember because we were doing similar things in Canada, and we talked about Hillary Rodham-Clinton during our classes preparing for in-school placements.

ehBeth
 
  1  
Wed 17 Feb, 2016 06:53 pm
@Debra Law,
c'mon

you couldn't google Hillary Clinton achievements and find anything?

I'll believe you won't do it, but I can't believe you did do it
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 17 Feb, 2016 06:53 pm
@ehBeth,
I'm not so sure about the claim that parents are our first teachers. At least not in our family. Our mother spoke only Japanese, and the only thing I learned from her was her telling me to go to the store to buy something. She didn't ask the other children in the family to do that. Oh, I forgot. Once, our mother asked my older brother to go buy a head of lettuce, and he came back with cabbage.
 

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