40
   

I'll Never Vote for Hillary Clinton

 
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Fri 7 Oct, 2016 08:55 am
@JPB,
Quote:
Both of these are hyperbole. Words like "everything" and "everyone" are the reason why we get stuck in the status quo. No, Johnson doesn't believe that the government should be out of everything, and I've never heard Bernie say that government should help everyone equally.


Granted it was over simplified and hyperbole. I was just simplifying it and speaking in my words, not really trying to be specific. Anyway, there are a world of differences between Johnson who is a libertarian and Bernie who is calls himself a socialist democrat.

Don’t be Fooled: Why Bernie Sanders Supporters Should Stay Clear of Gary Johnson

Quote:

As millions of Sanders supporters continue wrestling with the hard choice facing them as the November elections grow near, one point should be made crystal clear: while Johnson appears to align with Sanders on some issues (gay rights, abortion rights, legalizing marijuana, reducing military interventionism, etc.), both candidates represent completely separate worldviews.

If we boil down the libertarian ideology to its fundamentals, they essentially believe that we should have as minimal government as possible. Government protections of civil rights? Zip. Government regulations of large, unsustainable financial institutions that have already wreaked havoc on our economy? Nope. Government policies that preserve the environment and protect our natural resources? Zilch.

In the context of the issues where there is basic agreement between Sanders and Johnson, we find that the supposed “73 percent” agreement statistic is a gross exaggeration. Sure, Johnson believes that women should have the right the choose whether or not to get an abortion, but the libertarian ideology dictates that employers should be able to control whether or not their employees’ insurance polices cover contraceptive healthcare. Johnson says that he is all for gay rights, but should businesses be able to fire their workers because of their gender identity or sexuality? According to libertarians, government has no place in protecting victims of wrongful employment termination.

The biggest hypocrisy that libertarians often express when it comes to social issues, particularly when they are trying to pander to progressives, is the issue of “state’s rights”. Oftentimes, libertarians conveniently leave out their position that social issues should be left to the states. This means, for example, that the federal government should never restrict one’s right to smoke marijuana, pay for sex, get married, or control their own bodies…but when it comes to state and local governments, the ability to restrict all of these rights are fair game. In fact, this “small government” ideology is a lingering by-product of the racist counter-ideology expressed by conservatives in the 1960s in response to civil rights: the federal government shouldn’t restrict the rights of black people, but if racist politicians in the Louisiana legislature want to allow business owners to enforce a “No Colored People” policy, then the “big, bad” government should simply stay out of it, according to this troubling mindset.

I am not accusing Johnson of racism, but he has consistently criticized the federal government for encroaching upon “states’ rights” throughout his career. In 2010, for example, when Arizona upended the federal government’s immigration policy authority by passing SB 1070, which also had the impact of further institutionalizing racial profiling, Gary Johnson strongly defended Arizona’s right to pass this racist, shortsighted, xenophobic policy on the grounds of “states’ rights”:

Quote:
Every state is different, and is presented with its own challenges and opportunities related to immigration — and countless other issues. Rather than trying, as the Obama administration is doing, to stop Arizona from implementing its own approach, we should be encouraging the states to be the policy laboratories they were intended to be in our federal system.


Keep in mind that, in the same op-ed, he openly expressed concern that this law could lead to racial profiling. Despite admitting that the constitutional and human rights of Latinos and immigrants could be abused by the law, he still supported it and called the act taken by the Obama administration to challenge this law “a very bad decision”.

This is a clear-cut example of the dangers of libertarian “states’ rights”. Even when a libertarian politician expresses concern that a certain state-level policy will lead to racial profiling, their unshakable faith in the decision-making capacities of individual states, even when those acts infringe upon the civil rights of their citizens, outweighs the myriad of harms that results from a lack of federal oversight.

Here is another example: Gary Johnson says that he is pro-choice, but he holds the incompatible libertarian belief that abortion should be “left to the states”. In fact, he even touted his record of restricting abortion rights as the governor of New Mexico. Once again, Johnson is trying to have it both ways, but you can’t fool us: if you believe that a woman should have the right to choose, you cannot also say that the individual states should be able to decide whether or not to abridge the right to choose…unless if you prescribe to libertarianism.

On paper, Johnson and Sanders share similar views on some social and civil rights topics, but when you dive into the overarching libertarian ideology that informs Johnson’s worldview, we find that inalienable, bodily, human rights are not always protected for their own sake; if these rights are being infringed upon by the federal government, Johnson may be the first to protect the vulnerable, but if individual states enact the very same tyrannical, rights-abusing, racist, misogynistic, homophobic, privacy-abridging policies, according to his worldview, he’d have no problem with the individual states taking charge and protecting their “sovereignty”.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Fri 7 Oct, 2016 09:09 am
@Blickers,
That's a big problem, it's what gave us Dubya's disastrous term in office.
0 Replies
 
wmwcjr
 
  -1  
Fri 7 Oct, 2016 09:20 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Notice on this occasion that you and cicerone imposter generally say the same thing -- I repeat, the same thing -- but you get a thumbs-down while he gets a thumbs-up. (I just gave you a thumbs-up.) Isn't it amazing how anonymity emboldens even the most cowardly among us?
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  5  
Fri 7 Oct, 2016 09:21 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

Anybody else would be beating Trump by 20 percentage points by now.

I don't believe that at all. There is a solid group of Americans who would vote Republican even if they nominated a rock (same for Democrats). There is another group that will vote for a reality TV star over a "beltway politician" in a heartbeat without particular regard to his positions. Remember that Trump beat very respectable competition in the Republican primaries. Do you believe a Democratic version of Bush would be beating Trump by 20 points? I don't. Bush was very well funded, had all the connections and got slaughtered.
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Fri 7 Oct, 2016 09:31 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
And yet the GOP spent ALL of their time bashing Hillary, and virtually NONE of their time bashing Bernie. Why would they do that if Hillary was the weakest candidate?

Force of habit?
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Fri 7 Oct, 2016 09:34 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
Remember that Trump beat very respectable competition in the Republican primaries. Do you believe a Democratic version of Bush would be beating Trump by 20 points? I don't. Bush was very well funded and had all the connections and got slaughtered.

You're actually comparing the electorate in the Republican primaries to that in the general election? You do realize that the former is a small, unrepresentative subset of the latter, don't you?
Blickers
 
  3  
Fri 7 Oct, 2016 09:35 am
The video is very effective, I like David Pakman. However, in the counter-commentary section, Rachel said that she didn't think that Trump's reversals would bother many Trump supporters. I agree. But swaying voters who are already for Trump is not the issue, it's holding down the number of undecided voters who eventually go for Trump. Trump is polling around 44% in a 2-way race and 40% in a four way race and he needs a lot more.

Hillary's already polling 48% in a 2-way race and 44% in a 4-way race, she's only got a little more to go before clinching it. Once voters have decided on a candidate, it is very difficult, especially late in the race, to get them to change. It is MUCH more possible to go for your candidate if they were previously undecided. Hillary's just a couple of percentage points away right now from getting that majority to decide for her, Trump is 6 points away. Time is running out and it's not going Trump's way. Check the chart for the last month:

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah279/LeviStubbs/Race%20last%2030%20days_zps5u6dvc5m.jpg
Lash
 
  -2  
Fri 7 Oct, 2016 10:15 am
@joefromchicago,
I don't know if porsche's lying from habit or he's deluded.

If Donald Trump has been neck and neck with her, she's horrifically damaged goods and a threat to lose.

Lash
 
  -2  
Fri 7 Oct, 2016 10:16 am
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Seriously? You don't think either Johnson or Stein would be worse? Johnson is woefully under-informed and Stein is honestly a Socialist. How well do you think either will function with an overwhelmingly hostile Congress, let alone the fact that neither of them are attracting the votes required to win????


Are you against Socialism now?
maporsche
 
  1  
Fri 7 Oct, 2016 10:33 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

I don't know if porsche's lying from habit or he's deluded.

If Donald Trump has been neck and neck with her, she's horrifically damaged goods and a threat to lose.


I anticipate that she'll win the popular vote by at least 3.5%. That is a landslide in presidential politics.

She'll win the electoral college by even more.
edgarblythe
 
  4  
Fri 7 Oct, 2016 10:42 am
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Seriously? You don't think either Johnson or Stein would be worse? Johnson is woefully under-informed and Stein is honestly a Socialist. How well do you think either will function with an overwhelmingly hostile Congress, let alone the fact that neither of them are attracting the votes required to win????

Johnson is a teaparty buffoon in my view.
Bernie is the only one even willing to try to do the right thing.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Fri 7 Oct, 2016 10:54 am
@maporsche,
Certainly if her penchant for paying off corruption and graft continues unabated, it may be a landslide.
maporsche
 
  3  
Fri 7 Oct, 2016 11:08 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Certainly if her penchant for paying off corruption and graft continues unabated, it may be a landslide.


You know, it's nice that despite your supposed political 180 degree shift, that you haven't lost your perchance for dealing in mythology and accusations.
engineer
 
  5  
Fri 7 Oct, 2016 11:18 am
@joefromchicago,
My point is that if you replace Clinton with say Kerry or Biden, I don't think the needle moves very much. If an "undecided voter" is saying "I don't like Trump because he's a racist bigot who can't keep his lies straight from minute to minute but Clinton used a private email server" then that voter is also going to say "I don't like Trump because he's a racist bigot who can't keep his lies straight from minute to minute but Swiftboaters don't like Kerry". At this point people leaning Trump are just looking for convenient reasons to justify their vote and they will find them regardless of who is running.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Fri 7 Oct, 2016 11:45 am
@maporsche,
Makes me wonder where Lash gets her info.
snood
 
  2  
Fri 7 Oct, 2016 11:50 am
@cicerone imposter,
From the much esteemed Encyclopedia-from-out-of-her-butt
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Fri 7 Oct, 2016 11:54 am
@Blickers,
The trend lines speak volumes. Trump is toast.
Blickers
 
  3  
Fri 7 Oct, 2016 12:47 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Sure looks like it, unless they pull off an "October Surprise". Assange's "October Surprise" looked like it turned out to be an "October-November-December Press Releases Of Minor Interest", so they better hope for something else, fast.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Fri 7 Oct, 2016 12:53 pm
@Blickers,
I don't think the October surprise means anything as long as they put a mic in front of Trump.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  5  
Fri 7 Oct, 2016 01:03 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
And yet the GOP spent ALL of their time bashing Hillary, and virtually NONE of their time bashing Bernie. Why would they do that if Hillary was the weakest candidate?

The answer, of course, is that they wanted Bernie to get the nomination-then out come 15 different scandals at once, first being promoted by Fox and the Talk Radio guys, then eventually working themselves into the normal media outlets. The GOP knew they could chew up Bernie in two weeks and then spit out the bones. Hillary was going to be something else, and if they could get the Democrats to put up Bernie instead of the tough Hillary, the GOP's prayers would be answered.

Of course, you won't recognize this fact, that Bernie received almost no criticism from the Republicans, so you won't have to deal with it. Believe me, the GOP was not happy when it was Hillary who nailed down the nomination.
During the primaries for the democrat nomination, I was telling a co-worker of mine the exact same thing. It was obvious that the republican party badly wanted Bernie Sanders to win the democrat nomination. The republicans before, during, and after the primaries felt that they would have a much easier time beating Bernie Sanders. Also, the republicans before, during, and after the primaries felt that they would mostly likely lose if they have to run against Hillary Clinton. The republicans were absolutely correct to feel that way. The republicans also failed to get their wish of running against the easier opponent Bernie Sanders.

Hillary Clinton would have way more money to run her campaign during the general against the republican. Hillary Clinton ground game all across the country is unmatched by any republican candidate. Her ground game also would put Bernie sanders ground game to shame by comparison. Also the republicans would have took the phrase self proclaimed Socialist democrat, and ripped Bernie sanders to shreds.
 

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