Hundreds of Armed Right-Wing Militia Members Take Over Federal Building

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

I believe your main purpose to be on a2k, most threads, is for the express purpose of insisting an object most see as black or white is the full opposite.

Have an example, Ed? Anyone who sees this incident as a matter of "black and white" is color blind, if you ask me. I have seen "commentators" repeatedly misrepresent, with words, what can clearly be seen with your own eyes. I'll trust my eyes, sorry. False verbal accounts can't change that. I don't care how readily other people, with an agenda to promote, accept false words over empirical evidence, ya know? That's their business, and that it is "business" to them seems rather obvious.

The funny thing about "confirmation bias" is that it doesn't crop it's ugly-ass head unless you have a pre-existing bias you're lookin to confirm, eh?

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I'll tell y'all a true story, even if ya don't wanna hear it, eh? The cops shot and killed a guy in my crib not long ago.

There was no love lost between me and him. He came with the expressed intent of "cutting my head off, like the muslims do." Or so he told my neighbors across the street before he busted in.

He came in with a little-ass kitchen knife and a quart of beer in his hand, obviously drunk. He set his beer bottle on the floor and held up the knife. I grabbed the beer bottle by the neck and told him to bring it on.

After some idle threats, he laid his knife on the table. He wanted money. I told him to try robbing someone else and leave before I went upside his sorry head with the beer bottle.

About that time the cops busted in (the neighbors had called them). He grabbed the knife off the table and ran to the other side of the room.

While he was standing there, knife in hand, about 10 feet away from the cops, with a big-ass table and a lot of chairs between them, one of the pigs hauled out his pistol and blew him away.

I didn't like the guy to begin with. Even less so after he threatened to kill me. Truth be told, I didn't even care that they blew his sorry ass away.

But, that said, I told the investigating cops and the DA that the murder was wholly unjustified. Didn't make a damn bit of difference, of course. The cop was immediately exonerated.

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@layman,

Of course if he did not drop the knife that he had within not 21 feet but just ten feet of the cops all their training would have them blowing the fool away at once.

Any edge weapon at ten feet is very dangerous to those cops and they are under no obligation to assume a high risk being killed by the gentleman.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Of course if he did not drop the knife that he had within not 21 feet but just ten feet of the cops all their training would have them blowing the fool away at once.

Any edge weapon at ten feet is very dangerous to those cops and they are under no obligation to assume a high risk being killed by the gentleman.

Heh, "high risk of being killed," eh? By a chintzy little steak knife by superhumanly flying 10 feet in the air across a conference table, eh? Yeah, right.

The guy wasn't making any move toward them, nor was he told to drop the knife. They were just lookin to put another notch on their belt so they could brag to their pigs homeys that they had smoked more people than them. These guys, like you, are looking for excuses to kill people. They like it.

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Quote:

The following is an excerpt from the Oregon State Police policy, rules, and procedure manual regarding the use of deadly physical force:

"...Notwithstanding ORS 161.239, A sworn employee may use deadly physical force only when the officer reasonable believes the use of such force is necessary to:

Defend the officer or another person from what the officer reasonable believes to be the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical injury..."

http://www.flashalertbend.net/?alert=1

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@layman,

layman wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:

The FBI released the video
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/28/1476602/-FBI-release-video-LaVoy-Finicum-s-fatal-confrontation-with-police-to-dispel-rumors?detail=facebook

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=aAGxDWKrjPQ[/youtube]

I like the way they title this the "unedited video" when:

1. Any and all footage of the shooting is missing and we only see the dead body later, and
2. During the time the shooting is occurring, the video they started with is stopped, and footage from another camera (no more revealing) is spliced in. Then it switches back to the original chopper camera, with the dead body in place, eh?

What's up with that?

From the video linked above, skip to 9:22 show Fin exiting car, hands up. by 9:34 he is laying in the snow after being shot several times.

If ANYONE watching that video can say definitively that he was or was not reaching for a weapon, they would be a liar. The video is too grainy.

He is walking through high snow and lost his balance more than once. When the 2nd cop comes from woods, you can see he panics and starts to head back to the truck (9:30). At 9:32 the cop from the woods fires his weapon several times and Fin falls down.

There is no OBVIOUS attempt to go for a weapon, but the cops were closer than the camera. At this stage, I would side with the police until such time a body camera view from one of the 2 cops next to Fin appears (If they have one or decide to release it.)

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@McGentrix,

Quote:

From the video linked above, skip to 9:22 show Fin exiting car, hands up. by 9:34 he is laying in the snow after being shot several times.

Yeah, my bad. I was looking at the wrong part of the video when I made that other post.

Quote:

If ANYONE watching that video can say definitively that he was or was not reaching for a weapon, they would be a liar. The video is too grainy. There is no OBVIOUS attempt to go for a weapon, but the cops were closer than the camera.

Yeah, I'll agree with that. I do think it's obvious that he did not "put his hand in his pocket," as many have claimed, though, eh?

The point is that when you have your rifle drawn and pointed straight at the guy from a few feet away, you have plenty of time, without risk, to wait until he tries to haul out a gun before you smoke him. Just thinking he "might try something" don't cut it, under those circumstances.

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There was an incident, not long ago, where some unarmed guy was shot 25-30 times by cops. He was a foreigner who didn't speak English well and was trying to pull out his green card to show them. Just his "tough luck" that a buncha trigger-happy pigs opened fire, wholesale, on his ass, eh? Who would ever expect them to actually "see" a weapon before they started blasting?

1 Reply

Quote:

Statement by Greg Bretzing, Special Agent in Charge, FBI Portland, 1/28/2016:

During this operation, OSP troopers utilized deadly force due to their proximity to LaVoy Finicum as the situation unfolded. Because of this, the Deschutes County Major Incident Team is conducting the outside review of the shooting per Oregon State law and established protocols. Because of that on-going investigation, I will not be able to answer every question you have...

The plane is following the vehicles, and the camera sometimes pans from one vehicle to the other... a white truck in front and a jeep in back. At other times when the vehicles are in a fixed location, the plane is flying in a pattern over that location. Because of that flight pattern, there are portions where trees obscure what is happening.

Finicum leaves the truck and steps through the snow. Agents and troopers on scene had information that Finicum and others would be armed. On at least two occasions, Finicum reaches his right hand toward a pocket on the left inside portion of his jacket....At this time, OSP troopers shot Finicum.

He moved his hand "toward," not "into" a pocket, eh? Moving your hands is all it takes? This is "due to their proximity?" How does that work? Does that mean that because they were a few feet away from him, with guns drawn, the "proximity" made it easy to kill him, that it?

Quote:

Approximately 30 seconds after the shooting -- law enforcement officers at the scene deployed flash bangs to disorient any other armed occupants. Shortly after that, they deployed less-lethal sponge projectiles with OC capsules. Those OC capsules would be similar to pepper spray.

"Less" lethal, eh?

Quote:

...they provided medical assistance to Finicum. That happened about 10 minutes after the shooting.

http://www.flashalertbend.net/?alert=1

Nice that they took time to look at him after 10 minutes. Not sure it would have changed anything to attend to him sooner after he was shot (apparently multiple times, just to be sure he was dead), but who knows?

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@layman,

Like I said, even on the police shows they say, "Put your hands in the air and don't make any sudden moves." Finicum walks close to the cop, suddenly both his hands drop to his midsection area and he clearly is reaching for something on his person. That was enough for the cops to start shooting. After it was over, turns out he had a gun in his pocket. Try to convince a jury or any professional tribunal that shooting wasn't justified. Good luck.

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@layman,

Yes right as men has been killed by smaller knives then that and jumping on and across a across a table is no big deal either.

They follow their training an as a result got to go home to their families.

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@Blickers,

Quote:

Try to convince a jury or any professional tribunal that shooting wasn't justified. Good luck.

Heh. Try to convince a jury or any professional tribunal that the cops used excessive force when they beat Rodney King with blackjacks until they got tired, eh? Good luck.

Below is a link to some testimony from an eyewitness. The truck she, Levoy and others were in spent about 4 minutes at the first checkpoint with Levoy saying he was going into town to talk to the sheriff, who they trusted. The day before he was killed Finicum said it had become clear to him that the FBI intended to kill them. Whether paranoid or prophetic, he was right.

This witness said that when one of them put his head out the window at the first stop, he was shot at. When they then tried to get the hell out of there, they were fired on as they left.

She says that the second roadblock was an ambush set-up with snipers in trees. She says after Finicum was killed, they were not allowed to get out of the truck. She told them she just wanted to help Levoy but they began firing. The FBI agent said that "less lethal" ammo was used.

Listen to her testimony, if you care to. It wouldn't surprise me if you don't bother because you don't have to listen to it to deny it, but, whatever, eh?

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/update-new-details-emerge-about-lavoy-finicums-death-hes-like-just-shoot-me-and-they-did/

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@layman,

Wow.
He leaves the truck with his arms out. He runs a distance, stops reaches into his coat. Then he is shot from the front.

You do like to prove how out of touch with reality you are, don't you?

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@layman,

Rodney King the man who first stolen a car and then placed everyone on the roadway life in danger by forcing the cops to do a high speed pursuit and then fought the cops?

Poor guy got beaten up as a result how awful.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Yes right as men has been killed by smaller knives then that and jumping on and across a across a table is no big deal either.

The other day some punk-ass boy, about 6 years old, threatened to kick my ass. So, naturally, I kicked the little bastard's teeth in before he could try it. I was threatened, and I have a right to defend myself, ya know?

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@layman,

Somehow I suspect the 6 year old kicked your ass.

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@ossobuco,

It is too damn bad. I know a lot of very nice Californians.

Right now the hate is centered around housing. We're in the middle of a real housing crisis partly (mostly?) fueled by California tech transplants who can buy a great house here for what they could buy a crappy house for in the San Francisco area. It's driving house prices and rents way, way up and neighborhoods are being dramatically changed with infill and apartments (that don't build parking spaces for their tenants).

Not a week goes by without us getting a letter asking us if we'd sell our house to an interested buyer, usually one from California, and always willing to pay cash. We've even had people knock on our door and ask us to sell them our house.

I'm not sure why Californians were hated before the housing crisis. Must just be Oregon xenophobia. I've lived here for 25 years and I'm still an outsider.

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@Blickers,

Blickers wrote:

A gun was found in the man's pocket.

they knew he was armed before leaving the refuge per the feeds I read last night

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@layman,

Well once a young woman lost it due to my bumping her car with a shopping cart at a home deposit parking lot and got into my face stating she was going to kill me in fact stating she was going to follow me home and killed me.

I did not say a thing just kept my eyes on her hands to see if she was going to produce a gun or a knife after threatening to kill me and if she did I was going to use the gun in my pocket to kill her instead.

She ran down and walk away never knowing how near she came to ending her own life an oh footnote there was no harm done to her car.

A verbal threat is not enough to take actions either in the case of the kid in your case or the young lady in my case but it either one had produce a deadly weapon both you and I would had have the right to defend ourselves

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@layman,

Quote Victoria Sharp, from layman's source:

Quote:

He’s [Finicum's] like, just shoot me then, just shoot me — and they did, they shot him dead,” Sharp said. “They shot him right there, he was just walking — I saw it. I swear to God, he was just walking with his hands in the air.

Except that his hands most definitely were not in the air just before he got shot. He walked up to 20 feet in front of the cop then suddenly dropped his hands to his midsection and his hands started moving around his middle body, as if he was reaching for something. That you can see on the video, blurry as it might be. After they shot him, it turned out he had a 9mm gun in his pocket. So Victoria Sharp is not telling the truth.

Like I said, even on the TV shows they tell them, "Put your hands in the air and don't make any sudden moves".

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Hundreds of Armed Right-Wing Militia Members Take Over Federal Building

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