Hundreds of Armed Right-Wing Militia Members Take Over Federal Building

It looks like suicide by cop to me.

I've read he got out of the car, threw his hands up, and started yelling "Shoot me! Shoot me!", then reached for his gun and got shot.

He'd had plenty of opportunities to surrender peacefully.

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@Blickers,

Quote:

Except that his hands most definitely were not in the air just before he got shot.... So Victoria Sharp is not telling the truth.

I figured you would immediately call her a liar, eh? Where were his hands, if not in the air? In his pocket, as they claim. No. They were in thin air.

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Like I said, even on the TV shows they tell them...

I guess Lavoy didn't watch as many TV shows as you, eh? Will you never tire of throwin out your lame-ass "on TV" line? You haven't ever responded to the question here--you just quote TV lines.

Did you think the Ferguson cop had every right to shoot at the kid as he ran? Was there ever a police shooting that you didn't like?

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@layman,

layman wrote:

In his pocket, as they claim. No.

nope. this is not what the FBI or OSP said.

1 Reply

@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

It looks like suicide by cop to me.

I've read he got out of the car, threw his hands up, and started yelling "Shoot me! Shoot me!", then reached for his gun and got shot.

He'd had plenty of opportunities to surrender peacefully.

Refusing to "surrender" is not a reason to use deadly force. He told them he was going to report to the sheriff. Many citizens have, out of fear, drove away from a traffic stop made on a desolate road and driven directly to the local police station where they felt safe. He didn't want to put himself at the mercy of those he was convinced wanted to kill him. So what?

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@ehBeth,

Quote:

nope. this is not what the FBI or OSP said.

You're right, it isn't. It's the kind of thing that was claimed in the article presenting the video and in the tweets you posted, that's all. And made by people like Blickers, there.

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@ehBeth,

They also knew they had a vehicle filled with other armed men.

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@layman,

"Shoot me! Shoot me!" - It must be red neck for "I"m going to the police station to turn myself in."

We are so glad you are here to translate for us, Layman. Too bad you don't work for the FBI in their foreign language department.

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@Blickers,

Quote:

So Victoria Sharp is not telling the truth.

They are two other videos out there, both from "militiamen." They both claimed Levoy "charged" the cops. They weren't anywhere near the scene, but give the impression that they were. They were identified as "eyewitnesses" by the media. If anyone is lying, it's them. They have no basis for those claims, as the video makes clear. But I'm sure you'd be inclined to believe them, no questions asked, just like the liberal media that has been posted in this thread eh?

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@layman,

I care not what "militiamen" claimed in videos after the scene. The scene from the aircraft at 9:20 of the video clearly shows Finicum getting out of the car with hands in the air, until he gets about 20 feet in front of the cop with the gun drawn on him. At that point Finicum clearly drops both hands to his midsection area, his hands contact his clothing and he starts feeling and reaching around his body for something. Then the cops open fire. Victoria Sharp said Finicum's hands were in the air when he was shot, and Finicum's hands were not in the air when he was shot. Therefore, we cannot believe Victoria Sharp's account of what happened, since it is contradicted by the video on the scene.

A9mm gun was found in Finicum's pocket after the shooting.

As to why you introduce extraneous videos made afterward and the claims they make, I have no idea. The video from the plane shows all that is necessary.

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@Blickers,

Quote:

Victoria Sharp said Finicum's hands were in the air when he was shot, and Finicum's hands were not in the air when he was shot.

Repeat your mantra enough times and it might convince someone, eh? You forgot to include your TV reference though. Answer the question: Where were his hands, if not in the air?

Are you suggesting that she is lying? Is that your claim? Yes or no?

Quote:

Therefore, we cannot believe Victoria Sharp's account of what happened, since it is contradicted by the video on the scene.

Is it your claim that everything she says is false?

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Quote:

Day 28 At The Malheur Occupation: 5 Things You Need To Know

by David Stuckey and Kimberley Freda OPB | Jan. 29, 2016 8:03 a.m. | Updated: Jan. 29, 2016 9:52 a.m.

FBI officials have established checkpoints around the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge as a handful of armed militants remain inside.

Bradley Parks/OPB
On Thursday evening, the FBI held a press conference at the Harney County Chamber Of Commerce to outline details of the ongoing situation at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.

Four people remain inside the refuge south of Burns, Oregon, and although they have stated they are ready to abandon the occupation, ending the 28-day saga in Harney County has been easier said than done.

Here is where we stand today.

Roadtrip Ready: David Fry, one of the more vocal militants still remaining, told OPB the four militants inside have packed their cars and are ready to leave.

Judgement Day: A detention hearing is scheduled for today at the federal courthouse in Portland for the arrested militants who occupied the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. Many of the arrested militants have little or no criminal history, defense lawyers have argued. On Thursday, from her bench, Judge Stacie Beckerman said, “I’m not going to release anybody from custody, but I’ll entertain it tomorrow.”

Get Out Of Jail Free Card: The four remaining militants desperately want to end the occupation. However, they want to be able to leave the refuge without prosecution. The FBI said it is in constant contact with the militants on negotiations to end the occupation.

Caught On Tape: During a press conference Thursday, officials provided new details about the death of LaVoy Finicum, one of the armed occupiers who was shot by police Tuesday afternoon. The FBI released a video of the confrontation between Finicum and law enforcement which ended in him being shot and killed by a law enforcement officer.

Check Please: Although no official numbers have been released, officials have estimated the daily and weekly cost of the Malheur occupation from the onset. Harney County Judge Steve Grasty said he would bill the occupiers $70,000 per day, while Oregon Gov. Kate Brown estimated the cost at $100,000 per week. This does not include the schools affected by the occupation. Harney County Schools Superintendent Marilyn McBride estimates the occupation is costing the school system an extra $4,000 per day. If any of these numbers are remotely close, the cost of the entire occupation is costing the state millions.

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@boomerang,

I can't believe the remainders think they hold any cards in negotiating the terms of their leaving. They absolutely should be arrested. Hopefully it will make them think before they start up this kind of **** again.

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@layman,

Quote Blickers:

Quote:

Victoria Sharp said Finicum's hands were in the air when he was shot, and Finicum's hands were not in the air when he was shot.

Quote layman:

Quote:

Repeat your mantra enough times and it might convince someone, eh? You forgot to include your TV reference though. Answer the question: Where were his hands, if not in the air?

Are you saying his hands were not down to the middle of his body before he got shot? Well, are you?

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The man's hands clearly were not in the air, in the video I watched.

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@boomerang,

Quote boomerang:

Quote:

I can't believe the remainders think they hold any cards in negotiating the terms of their leaving. They absolutely should be arrested. Hopefully it will make them think before they start up this kind of **** again.

Yes, Ammon Bundy really put himself and his band of merry men in a legal hole a couple of weeks of weeks ago when he left the refuge to go to a meeting with other militants in another part of the country. He bragged about how they wanted advice from him about how to conduct a takeover like what he was doing in Oregon. When the conviction comes, Ammon Bundy's statements will make it clear that the judge has to make an example of Ammon Bundy & Friends by throwing the book at them.

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@Blickers,

Quote:

Are you saying his hands were not down to the middle of his body before he got shot? Well, are you?

It's clear that I'm not, and haven't said that. I said his hands were NOT in his pocket getting out his gun, as you (and many others) have claimed. They were in "thin air." Now answer the question(s), eh?

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@layman,

So, you are NOT claiming that his hands were up over his head or even out at his sides, but that there conceivably could have been an inch or less between his hands and the actual clothing he was wearing that was near his belt or pocket.

I'm not sure that inch even exists, but I'll accept it for the sake of argument. Well then, he walked from the car with his hands up and way out at his sides, in a manner traditional to one who is being taken into custody. The reason for this position is that the person holding the gun on you knows you are not grabbing for a weapon. That's the reason for the hands-up position. Finicum held the hands-up position until he got to within twenty feet or so of the cop, then his hands went down to his middle area near his belt and pockets.

A. Why would Finicum suddenly abandon the hands-up position once he got close to the cop?

B. How, under the circumstances, can the cop possibly interpret Finicum's abandonment of the hands-up position to one where his hand is near his belt or pocket as anything except a reach for a weapon?

1 Reply

@Blickers,

Blickers wrote:

A. Why would Finicum suddenly abandon the hands-up position once he got close to the cop?

B. How, under the circumstances, can the cop possibly interpret Finicum's abandonment of the hands-up position to one where his hand is near his belt or pocket as anything except a reach for a weapon?

Are you going to answer the question?

I've already answered both of these.

A. He was convinced the feds were out to kill them. The FBI knew this--they were monitoring everything video released from the complex. He was "paranoid" if you wish. They knew it. There was no reason whatsoever to sneak up behind him with a rifle pointed at his head. That would provoke a defensive response from anybody. In your view, I suppose, he would have "deserved" to be killed if they started beating him on the head with a black jack and he didn't just keep his hands in the air while they did it. The girl said that he did NOT pull a gun and she was absolutely right. There was no imminent threat to the cops when they pumped multiple shots into his body. His hands were over his head when he hit the ground. Does that satisfy you?

Quote:

B. How, under the circumstances, can the cop possibly interpret Finicum's abandonment of the hands-up position to one where his hand is near his belt or pocket as anything except a reach for a weapon?

Stupid question. Did he pull a gun? Was he an imminent threat to harm anyone? How they might "interpret" the look on his face, or anything else, is irrelevant. The law does not permit the use of unnecessary or excessive force. They killed him in cold blood. "Thinking" he might try to pull a gun is not a sufficient ground for murdering a guy, if even that's what you really are thinking (as opposed to just looking for an excuse to kill). Had he actually reached in his pocket and pulled out a gun nobody (but him) would have been hurt. He could never have gotten off a shot when they already had dead aim on him with fingers on triggers.

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@layman,

I wonder how many dead cops killed by assholes by either stabbings or gun fires would it take to made you happy.

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He could never have gotten off a shot when they already had dead aim on him with fingers on triggers.

Amazing idea that anyone hit by gun fire is incapable at once of returning fire one hundred percents of the time.

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Ever have a gun pulled on you? I have. More than once. Anyone, at anytime, "could" pull a gun on you. Unfortunately, that doesn't give me legal grounds to bust a cap in the ass of anyone I think "might" do it. If it did, there would be a lot of dead mofos around my parts, sho nuff.

1 Reply

Hundreds of Armed Right-Wing Militia Members Take Over Federal Building

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