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Hundreds of Armed Right-Wing Militia Members Take Over Federal Building

 
 
layman
 
  -1  
Sun 3 Jan, 2016 06:12 pm
@Lash,
Yeah, Ruby Ridge, eh?
Lash
 
  1  
Sun 3 Jan, 2016 06:13 pm
@layman,
Yes, but a little reading looks like my facts are misremembered. Reading now.

Randy Weaver was a separatist who was stung in an illegal firearms sale to the ATF. They killed his dog and his wife, in that order...

So not being mugged for his property.
Glennn
 
  1  
Sun 3 Jan, 2016 06:30 pm
@JPB,
Quote:
They served the time the trial judge said was adequate, but he was over ruled by the circuit court of appeals and they were to go back to fulfill the minimum sentencing guidelines.

The minimum sentencing guidelines for what crime?
JPB
 
  2  
Sun 3 Jan, 2016 06:38 pm
@Glennn,
Arson on federal land.

Quote:
By law, arson on federal land carries a five-year mandatory minimum sentence. When the Hammonds were originally sentenced, they argued that the five-year mandatory minimum terms were unconstitutional and the trial court agreed and imposed sentences well below what the law required based upon the jury’s verdicts. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, however, upheld the federal law, reasoning that “given the seriousness of arson, a five-year sentence is not grossly disproportionate to the offense.” The court vacated the original, unlawful sentences and ordered that the Hammonds be resentenced “in compliance with the law.” In March 2015, the Supreme Court rejected the Hammonds’ petitions for certiorari. Today, Chief Judge Aiken imposed five year prison terms on each of the Hammonds, with credit for time they already served.

“We all know the devastating effects that are caused by wildfires. Fires intentionally and illegally set on public lands, even those in a remote area, threaten property and residents and endanger firefighters called to battle the blaze” stated Acting U.S. Attorney Billy Williams.

“Congress sought to ensure that anyone who maliciously damages United States’ property by fire will serve at least 5 years in prison. These sentences are intended to be long enough to deter those like the Hammonds who disregard the law and place fire fighters and others in jeopardy.”
Ruling
JPB
 
  3  
Sun 3 Jan, 2016 06:39 pm
@JPB,
And the arson was purportedly to erase any evidence of poaching on federal lands.
layman
 
  0  
Sun 3 Jan, 2016 06:46 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

Yes, but a little reading looks like my facts are misremembered. Reading now.

Randy Weaver was a separatist who was stung in an illegal firearms sale to the ATF. They killed his dog and his wife, in that order...

So not being mugged for his property.


They also killed his 14 year old son, eh? Shot him in the back as he was running. Another kid with him was acquitted at trial on grounds of self-defense (i.e., the feds shot first). This was after the feds threw rocks at the house to provoke the dogs and precipitate some emergence from the cabin.
Wiki has a long article on this, which I never read before, but the back-story is a complete mess. Cops said Weaver was a bank robber (untrue), had fired at a helicopter, (untrue), and in various other ways tried to make him out to be a serious threat, when he wasn't. He had simply been charged with selling shotguns to an undercover ATF agent. He was paranoid of the government, had been told that if he was convicted the government would take his land, leaving his wife homeless, and that a government agency would take custody of his children.

They issued "shoot on sight" orders and killed his wife while she held a baby in her arms, shot Weaver twice when he came out to see his dead son, and all kinda crazy-ass ****

Excerpt:

Quote:
The Department of Justice Office of Professional Responsibility (OPR) Ruby Ridge Task Force Report (June 10, 1994) stated in section I. Executive Summary subhead B. Significant Findings that the second shot did not satisfy constitutional standards for legal use of deadly force.[56] The OPR review also found the lack of a request to surrender was "inexcusable", since Harris and the two Weavers were running for cover without returning fire and were not an imminent threat.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  0  
Sun 3 Jan, 2016 06:49 pm
@JPB,
The definition of arson is the malicious destruction of property. What is the source of your claim that the burning was to erase evidence of poaching on federal lands?
JPB
 
  3  
Sun 3 Jan, 2016 06:53 pm
@Glennn,
http://able2know.org/topic/307729-2#post-6100846
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 3 Jan, 2016 07:05 pm
@boomerang,
Finally, some real, factual, news. Thx.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Sun 3 Jan, 2016 07:12 pm
@Lash,
You forgot his young son that was out with the dog and when the dog was shot he open fired on the federal agents and they then killed him.

Then the boy uncle came along and killed one of the federal agents.

The wife was killed later by a federal sniper when she show herself at the cabin door while holding her infant in her arms.

You could not have anyone buying this story in a fiction book.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  7  
Sun 3 Jan, 2016 07:31 pm
One of these militia dudes, en route to the scene, recorded a video saying goodbye to his family and stating how he would be proud to die for Liberty.

It's a species of modern Americana. Kind of like if Norman Rockwell had been a meth-head.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Sun 3 Jan, 2016 08:12 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
The BLM has been ******* with them for years, trying to harass them out. I still don't know all the details, but I think this should be considered before dismissing their side of the story.


I keep looking for this side of the story and can't find it so if you know about it I hope you'll share.

It doesn't look like the Refuge has expanded since 1942 and I can't find anything that says they're trying to expand now.

Here's the history of the Refuge: http://www.fws.gov/refuge/Malheur/about.html


Quote:
Malheur National Wildlife Refuge was established on August 18, 1908 by President Theodore Roosevelt as the Lake Malheur Reservation. Roosevelt set aside unclaimed government lands encompassed by Malheur, Mud and Harney Lakes “as a preserve and breeding ground for native birds.” The newly established “Lake Malheur Reservation” was the 19th of 51 wildlife refuges created by Roosevelt during his tenure as president. At the time, Malheur was the third refuge in Oregon and one of only six refuges west of the Mississippi.



In the late 1880s, plume hunters decimated North American bird populations in pursuit of breeding feathers for the hat industry. Hunters targeted large flocks of colonial nesting birds and shorebirds, killing birds indiscriminately and orphaning chicks. Eventually, the large numbers of colonial nesting birds on Malheur Lake were discovered by plume hunters. In 1908, wildlife photographers William L. Finley and Herman T. Bohlman discovered that most of the white herons (egrets) on Malheur Lake had been killed in 1898 by plume hunters. After 10 years the white heron population still had not recovered. With backing from the Oregon Audubon Society, Finley and Bohlman proposed establishment of a bird reservation to protect birds using Malheur, Mud, and Harney lakes.

The refuge now encompasses 187,757 acres of wildlife habitat. The 65,000 acre Blitzen Valley was purchased in 1935 and added to the refuge to secure water rights for Malheur and Mud Lake. With the creation of the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) in 1933, the refuge was able to use this additional manpower in 1935 to begin major improvements on the refuge. The CCC constructed most of the infrastructure in the Blitzen Valley including the Center Patrol Road which travels through the center of the refuge. The 14,000 acre Double-O unit was added to the refuge in 1942 and provides important shorebird habitat, as well as waterfowl nesting areas. Malheur Refuge is situated within the Harney Basin in southeastern Oregon. Located in the Northern Great Basin, this portion of the State is lightly populated, generally arid with cold winters, and characterized by wide open spaces.

The Refuge constitutes a small percentage of the Northern Great Basin’s total acreage but is a tremendously important source of wildlife habitat relative to other portions of the Northern Great Basin. The Refuge represents a crucial stop along the Pacific Flyway and offers resting, breeding, and nesting habitat for hundreds of migratory birds and other wildlife. Many of the species migrating through or breeding here are highlighted as priority species in national bird conservation plans.


Are you saying they've been harassing these people for 74+ years?
blatham
 
  3  
Sun 3 Jan, 2016 08:24 pm
Reporting by OregonLive this afternoon:

About 25 militia at the occupied refuge building.
Ammon Bundy says there'll be no violence unless government people don't stay away.

Quote:
"We are not endangering anybody. We're not harming anybody," Bundy said. He said if federal authorities initiated a confrontation, "it would be simply over a building that they would come in and kill."
http://bit.ly/1Ou1pZN
Note that final word.

I trust most of us recognize that these militia dudes here want an armed and violent confrontation.
Lash
 
  1  
Sun 3 Jan, 2016 08:26 pm
@boomerang,
They've taken 100 ranches since 1900.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Sun 3 Jan, 2016 08:27 pm
@blatham,
ignore them

it'll drive them mad

I'm xíng out every reference to them I hit on FB
Lash
 
  1  
Sun 3 Jan, 2016 08:47 pm
@blatham,
That's how it appears now. Earlier, they asked supporters to maintain peace. More recent comments are provocative.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Sun 3 Jan, 2016 08:50 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

If it were Muslims it would be like 911 all over again.


My thoughts too.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Sun 3 Jan, 2016 08:50 pm
@Lash,
Where did you find this information? Ive seen some info like this on questionable sites but nothing anywhere else.
Lash
 
  2  
Sun 3 Jan, 2016 08:58 pm
@boomerang,
I linked it on the previous page. CNN.

BillRM
 
  2  
Sun 3 Jan, 2016 09:05 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
militia dudes here want an armed and violent confrontation.


Surround them and let no one in or out with special note of no food allowed in.
 

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