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Hundreds of Armed Right-Wing Militia Members Take Over Federal Building

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 05:04 pm
@blatham,
Not to be a smartass, but I think layman's reply to your citing the Dept of Homeland Security in which he, in turn, cited the FBI warrants a reply.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 05:20 pm
The Western land situation from a different viewpoint:


The Western Land Revolt


As the FBI seeks to end the citizen takeover of Oregon’s Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, it’s worth reflecting on what is behind the rising civil disobedience in the American West. The armed occupation of federal buildings is inexcusable, but so are federal land-management abuses and prosecutorial overreach.

Activists on Saturday broke into an unoccupied building on the 187,000-acre federal refuge in eastern Oregon to protest the imprisonment of two Oregon ranchers. The group’s spokesman is Ammon Bundy, son of Cliven Bundy, a Nevadan who in 2014 came to national attention over his standoff with the Bureau of Land Management. The younger Bundy is a political grandstander, and many in Oregon oppose his illegal siege.

The drama is bringing attention to legitimate grievances, especially the appalling federal treatment of the Hammond family. The Hammonds’ problems trace to 1908, when Theodore Roosevelt set aside 89,000 acres around Malheur Lake as a bird refuge. The government has since been on a voracious land-and-water grab, coercing the area’s once-thriving ranchers to sell.

The feds have revoked dozens of grazing permits and raised the price of the few it issues. It has mismanaged the area’s water, allowing ranchlands to flood. It has harassed landowners with regulatory actions that raise the cost of ranching, then has bought out private landowners to more than double the refuge’s size.

The Hammonds are one of the last private owners in the Harney Basin, and they have endured federal harassment over their water rights, the revocation of their grazing permits, restricted access to their property, and prosecutorial abuse.

In 2001 the family told authorities it planned to set a managed fire on its land to fight invasive species. The fire accidently spread over 139 acres of public land before the Hammonds extinguished it. In 2006 the family tried to save its winter feed from a lightning fire by setting “back fires” on its property (a common practice), which burnt an acre of public land.

Years later, in 2011, the feds charged Dwight Hammond and his son Steven with nine counts under the elastic Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act. A federal jury found them guilty only of setting the two fires they had admitted to starting, and federal Judge Michael Hogan sentenced the father to three months and the son to a year in prison. He said the federal minimum of five years would not meet “any idea I have of justice, proportionality” and would “shock the conscience.” The feds appealed the sentence and another judge ordered both Hammonds to serve the full five years. They also owe $400,000 in supposed fire-related costs.

Many in rural Oregon view this as a government vendetta. Rusty Inglis, who worked for the Forest Service for 34 years and now runs a local Oregon farm bureau, recently told a trade magazine that it’s “obvious” that “the BLM and the wildlife refuge want that ranch.” The Oregon Farm Bureau called the sentences “gross government overreach.” The ideology of “national” land has become the club to punish private landowners who are the best source of economic stability and conservation.

The Bundy occupation of federal land can’t be tolerated, but the growing Western opposition to government harassment of private landowners ought to be a source of political concern. Ted Cruz and others are right to caution the occupiers against their sit-in, but the federal bureaucracy also needs to be reined in.

Normally I don't post articles in their entirety, but WSJ is a pay-site and often the links I provide don't lead to one of their free to the public articles.

Here's the link though http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-western-land-revolt-1452040569?mod=djemMER
Glennn
 
  2  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 05:23 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Left to the States, massive pockets of injustice and inequity would exist throughout the nation, and a mere pittance, if anything, would be spent on the disadvantaged.

If the following does not apply to your comment, then disregard it as such.
______________________________
In a comparison analysis regarding State vs. Federal land management, here is a PERC (Property and Environment Research Center) public lands report from 2015, called Divided Lands: State vs. Federal Management in the West:

By comparison, states are controlling costs and generating substantial revenues from state trust lands. Like federal multiple-use agencies, state agencies lease land for grazing and mineral development, as well as manage timber and recreation resources on 40 million acres of state trust lands in the West. Unlike federal agencies, however, states earn a profit. From 2009 to 2013, the four states we examined—Montana, Idaho, New Mexico, and Arizona—earned a combined average of $14.51 for every dollar spent managing state trust lands. During that same period, the federal land agencies lost money, generating only 73 cents for every dollar it spent managing federal lands.

Not only do federal land agencies earn far less than state agencies, they outspend states by a wide margin on a per-acre basis. Federal land expenditures are more than six times higher per acre than state expenditures. Moreover, state trust lands generate ten times more revenue per full-time employee than federal land agencies.


http://www.perc.org/sites/default/files/PERCreport_DividedLands_Feb6_WorkingPaper.pdf
ehBeth
 
  3  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 05:25 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
the more I read about the Hammonds, the more I dislike them

that whole burn to hide poaching
nope
possible abuse of a young family member
nope

As much as I'm usually supportive of farmers/ranchers (pretty much my entire circle back home), these people don't seem to be good guys.

__

in any case, they don't support what the Bundy Bunch is doing in their name (or claimed to be doing in their name)
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 05:30 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn - the land was bought and paid for. The three jailed ranchers admit they poached deer and committed arson to hide their admitted poaching. They disclaim any connection to the "militia" at the wild life sanctuary.

The second amendment describes a right to bear arms in a "well regulated militia". You got to admit: these guys are the wrong way Corrighans of the militia world. No way they're well regulated.
Glennn
 
  1  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 05:32 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
The Western Land Revolt

Very informative.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 05:33 pm
@ehBeth,
I wish more people would see this advice re photos.

I am presuming the new project will have help on this stuff at the beginning of clicking on here. I will include that it seems presupposed that people have pcs and not macs. Instructions can differ, not by much, but can confuse. Or at least that's what I see, but my observation may not still be true.

I'll add that I take 900 as width, tops, and lesser as a good idea, such as your 600, or lesser, when Robert wrote about it in the early A2k blog, if I remember.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 05:34 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
and this

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
The government has since been on a voracious land-and-water grab, coercing the area’s once-thriving ranchers to sell.


the last addition to the refuge was in 1942

__

this stuff was all covered off in the first few pages of this thread
McGentrix
 
  0  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 05:45 pm
@ehBeth,
/hat tip
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 05:53 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Quote:
The three jailed ranchers admit they poached deer

I've been searching for the source of this claim, and can't find it. Where did you read this? And who was the third jailed rancher?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  2  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 05:56 pm
@ehBeth,
Offering this for what it's worth. I'm not familiar with the site, but one of their related story has WaPo as a source.

BLM = BAD

Don't believe, outright, the simplistic tales they tell.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/blm-guilty-environmental-atrocities-concerned-wildlife-conservation/



ehBeth
 
  1  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 05:59 pm
@Lash,
yeah
no
that site is mentioned on snopes a bit too often

not going there
Glennn
 
  1  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 06:14 pm
@ehBeth,
This was written by Jayni Foley Hein, former director, Center for Law, Energy & the Environment.

On April 8, a federal magistrate judge issued the first major ruling in a California fracking lawsuit, finding that the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM) violated the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) by failing to take the necessary “hard look” at the impact of hydraulic fracturing when it sold oil and gas leases in California.

http://blogs.berkeley.edu/2013/04/10/fracking-blms-illegal-sale-of-oil-and-gas-leases-in-california/

It was one of the links from what Lash provided.
Lash
 
  0  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 06:25 pm
@ehBeth,
I know we all need to be thoughtful about what we let in and keep out, but that big swipe of yours smacks a bit of confirmation bias, m'dear. Wink
layman
 
  -2  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 06:38 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Quote:
The three jailed ranchers admit they poached deer and committed arson to hide their admitted poaching.


No, they don't, and never have. They admit they started the fire, but certainly not for that purpose. A witness of dubious age, recollection, credibility and mental stability claimed that at their trial, but even the judge said his credibility was doubtful.

Certainly prejudicial, though.
layman
 
  1  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 06:39 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
the last addition to the refuge was in 1942


That claim conflicts with many to the contrary that I've seen. Got a source?
ehBeth
 
  1  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 06:40 pm
@Glennn,
Are the Hammonds or Bundys in California?

Nope.

I'm sure that the link you've provided is relevant to other things happening with the BLM - just not what's happening in Oregon right now.

__

I'm not suggesting that the BLM is a wonderful group all round.

I am aware of some good work they have done recently with wild mustangs (which I know pissed other ranchers off), but like all government agencies I suspect it's a mixed bag with too much local political influence ******* things up.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 06:44 pm
@ehBeth,
Always good to hear both sides of any issue that has such wide media coverage.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 06:45 pm
@layman,
As far as the "land grab" claim goes, it has also been said that many attempts by the BLM to buy land from ranchers have been rebuffed and that they therefore took indirect actions to "force" sales, such as flooding ranches, rendering them worthless--then buying.
layman
 
  0  
Thu 7 Jan, 2016 06:47 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

I know we all need to be thoughtful about what we let in and keep out, but that big swipe of yours smacks a bit of confirmation bias, m'dear. Wink


Very astute, Lash.

See Glenn's post, for example:

http://able2know.org/topic/307729-30#post-6103593
0 Replies
 
 

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