The rules are changing, we are going to start showing the assholes the door

@glitterbag,

Wow, this is moving so fast it appears 4 comments were made while I was typing this up. Sorry

@Lordyaswas,

Lordyaswas wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Lordyaswas wrote:

Utterly, mindnumbingly bored with all this repetative hairsplitting, whining and nitpicking now, and hope that Robert just gets on with what he wants to do with HIS site, and we can all move on.

My teeth were beginning to itch. Life is way too short for all this bollocks.

Then we can count on no further posts from you?

Always laugh when someone complains about complaining.

I was making the point about hairsplitting.

All these past umpteen pages of repetetive nonsense have been covered by answers by Robert in the opening half a dozen pages.

Please let him get on with it, and stop with the on and on and on....

Well, I guess this answered my question.

I doubt Robert is delaying the upgrading process because he feels compelled to remain tethered to this thread. If he feels he has nothing new to say on this subject, he certainly can retire. I would suggest you leave that decision to him.

There are a number of threads in this forum that have entered a world of tedium that is unbearable, but guess what? No one is forced to bear them.

You simply need to resist your, apparently, masochistic urge to enter this thread and subject yourself to the unbearable.

Your teeth will thank you.

0 Replies

@Robert Gentel,

Robert Gentel wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
I have not done it...and I am not egotistical enough to suppose I could.

Are you egotistical enough to suppose you could drive someone from this forum?

Frank I like you, but you are wrong here and yes you have done it. That doesn't make you some kind of forum monster, I've probably done it more often than you have and it doesn't necessarily have to be by intent either.

You and I can sometimes come on a bit strong, we are opinionated. You have, in fact, come on a bit strong for some and when that made spending their time here less enjoyable than they thought it should be in order to spend their time here some have in fact chosen to leave.

It happens, and yes you have done it and yes you know how you can do less of it. We all do. It's not that big a deal to admit to it.

Well, it shouldn't be that big a deal to admit it, I give you that.

0 Replies

@EqualityFLSTPete,

EqualityFLSTPete wrote:

So you allowed it to go on for years now you decide to ban one person?

I haven't been around for years. We also have a policy of not generally announcing suspensions (though we must be willing to discuss them if challenged) and not all of them will even become public. This was one where it inevitably would have and where there was initially a significant amount of disagreement with, and together with wanting to make clear the rules (which are admittedly not well codified at present) is why we are discussing it.

Quote:

And you think others are going to take your word for it that things are going to get better around here?

I don't really know what you want to think, it's up to you.

Quote:

I recall reading in another thread pretty much the same thing and that was a couple years ago. Nothing changed then. IMO too little too late, there are only a few million other boards out there for people to post on.

That's an understandable position, but ultimately I spend my time on what I can and while I would have liked to have been able to direct my focus to this community it represented a cost, a hobby and I had to focus my time on keeping the part of my company that pays for the cost in order to put food on the table etc. Starting a company is hard, we've had some very rough spots where if I were focusing on A2K we would have gone under.

Anyway, this project was always my favorite creation and I now have time to focus on it. This may change, like it has before and I may not be able to bring my dreams to fruition. And well yeah you are just going to have to vote with your feet either way. I certainly agree that there are plenty of internet communities to choose from and all I can do is what I can with this one and let the chips fall where they may.

Sometimes all I could do was not much and that is something I regret but life doesn't always go the way you want and though I wish I had more money and time to spend on A2K I have not, now I do and barring any unforeseen changes (if the core business in my company suffers I will have to change my focus) I intend to make it much better.

I have no desire to convince everyone of this, I am just gonna do my level best and live with the results.

0 Replies

Robert wrote:

You are being very ironic here. I mean, sure I get calling Frank that and any of us opinionated sorts but what are you doing here if not what you are accusing him of?

No, I really don't think so.

Frank verbally assaulted me for no reason when I was not even talking to him.

Not only that but his claims as to know what I think and what kind of atheism I am are really exasperating.

When he shows some civility and respects my atheism, I'll return the favor...

3 Replies

@EqualityFLSTPete,

There are also Facebook groups, reddit, hacker news, voat, 4chan and many many other communities out there. We (various internet communities) can coexist with them and I intend to try to do things a bit differently than they do with my own vision. I don't have to be the only internet community to be happy with what I've done with the ones I created. There is room on the internet for us all.

0 Replies

@timur,

Don't hold your breath. Wink

1 Reply

@Robert Gentel,

Robert Gentel wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
I have not done it...and I am not egotistical enough to suppose I could.

Are you egotistical enough to suppose you could drive someone from this forum?

Frank I like you, but you are wrong here and yes you have done it. That doesn't make you some kind of forum monster, I've probably done it more often than you have and it doesn't necessarily have to be by intent either.

You and I can sometimes come on a bit strong, we are opinionated. You have, in fact, come on a bit strong for some and when that made spending their time here less enjoyable than they thought it should be in order to spend their time here some have in fact chosen to leave.

It happens, and yes you have done it and yes you know how you can do less of it. We all do. It's not that big a deal to admit to it.

I'm going to disagree with you here, Robert.

I have not done it...NOR HAVE YOU.

If someone leaves...it is almost certainly not because of what you or I have said. It is much, much more likely they simply do not have the stomach for what happens in Internet discussions.

I can tell you without a doubt that people have left this forum suggesting that I have driven them from it...people who have posted comments to me and others that made the worst of mine look like the work of a saint.

Nobody ever drove anyone with any spine from this forum.

And as for the IGNORE...I have heard people put me on IGNORE who have had raging battles with others...in battles where both of the participants have said things I would not think of saying. They put me on IGNORE not because I am a cretin or troublemaker, but because I can argue reasonably on any of the matters that are important to me.

With the exception of one person (Setanta) who made a vocation of being insulting to me...I have kept my remarks on a relatively high plane in this forum.

The atheists (of which there are many) here do not like my agnostic take...or the way I deal with their scorning, demeaning attitude toward the theists here.

Tough.

But they deserve every word I've ever sent their way.

Once again...I will live with whatever changes you choose to make here...and continue to treat this forum with respect...(a lot more respect than I see some of the complainers showing)

...but I will not accept that I have driven anyone from this forum. If I have been as an excuse for people leaving...I suggest as respectfully as possible that they are lacking of the stomach for the kind of thing that goes on in EVERY Internet forum. That is all it has been: Using me as an excuse.

I will match my conduct and postings (with that one exception) with ANYONE in the place...and I am ready to begin the moment someone posts a comment I've made that is considered exceptionally insulting or demeaning.

Anyone???

2 Replies

@layman,

I get your point, it is the reason I hadn't gone with blocking in the first place. I wanted to be able to opine where I wished and thought that any impediment to it would be to dampen the vibrancy of the exchange of ideas.

I can make all of your arguments for you because I understand them well, and they are right. But they are one-sided. They do not take into account the full community dynamics.

Giving people a better average user experience in the community will make more of a difference for the vibrancy of the marketplace of ideas than will the freedom to post your opinion in response to people who don't want to hear it.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink anyway, by fostering a more enjoyable experience the marketplace of ideas will be more broadly represented by more viewpoints and while blocking will have a small impact occasionally (I predict it will initially affect at the very most 1-3% of your exchanges in your worst-case scenarios) on one's individual access to conversations it will result in more conversations on the whole and will be a net improvement, not a net negative to the marketplace of ideas even if it does in fact represent a small impact to your ability to contribute to it by potentially placing some conversations beyond your reach.

0 Replies

@timur,

timur wrote:

Frank wrote:
I have finished everything you've ever started with me

Being the liar you are, I remind you that I replied to you since when you insulted me for no reason and when I wasn't even talking to you.

I have never started any of the dust-ups with you, Timur. And at the beginning, I attempted to derail the dust-ups with a bit of humor. But you are determined to starts with me that you simply are incapable of ending.

I will continue to end them and you will get figuratively bloodied in the process.[/b]

Quote:

I'll probably be banned and prevented from posting but you'll not finish anything.

I've "finished" every one of these things you've ever started...and I will finish this one. In the meantime, you are a good guy. I like you. In fact, like all the rest of humanity...I love you.

Get control.

0 Replies

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

I confess that I would have been apoplectic at the thought of not being able to debunk every single untrue statement on the Amanda Knox threads back when she and Raffaele were in real jeopardy.

Yeah, you were positively obsessed with it (not meaning to be insulting there, trying to describe a highly motivated pattern of behavior). Frankly I wish there were some conversations about that subject that could have been held without as much volume of your posts (though I appreciated your contributing your point of view every thread about that back then was pretty much relegated to your point of view).

That is not your fault really (I get the same way about topics, look at me here on this thread being all preachy) or a blocking issue though, it is a threaded conversation issue. If those topics had threads of multiple conversations your obsession with it would not have dominated the monolithic linear conversation as much and would have generally been more enjoyable.

Threaded conversations are going to be the single biggest improvement to the site as well as the most controversial user interface change (because the improvement comes at the cost of increased interface complexity and cognitive load in using the system).

0 Replies

Frank wrote:

The atheists (of which there are many) here do not like my agnostic take...or the way I deal with their scorning, demeaning attitude toward the theists here.

Tough.

But they deserve every word I've ever sent their way.

The way you weasel through words is really despicable.

I don't give a rat's ass what agnosticism you profess and I've never have judged it.

You, on the other hand, always tell me that my atheism is this and that.

You cannot be more hypocrite than that..

1 Reply

@Robert Gentel,

Robert Gentel wrote:

I don't understand your objection to blocking here, are you saying you think they'd block you and you would want to talk to them anyway?

If so I think that's a serious case of miswanting, if however you are expressing that you take a dim view of their postings blocking is merely a tool to excise that from your experience if you choose to.

I have not suggested any of that, Robert. I have no problem with people who avoid speaking with me...and I DO have enough ego to suppose it is more a compliment than an insult...all things considered.

I am saying the problem you seem to want to be solving...is, in my opinion, going to be exacerbated, rather than treated, by the changes.

This place is already too cliquish. The changes will make it more so.

But this is your forum...and you should deal with it as you see fit. All I am doing is offering an opinion...and I completely understand if you have considered what I am saying and disregard it for what you consider logical reasons.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Robert Gentel wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
I have not done it...and I am not egotistical enough to suppose I could.

Are you egotistical enough to suppose you could drive someone from this forum?

Frank I like you, but you are wrong here and yes you have done it. That doesn't make you some kind of forum monster, I've probably done it more often than you have and it doesn't necessarily have to be by intent either.

You and I can sometimes come on a bit strong, we are opinionated. You have, in fact, come on a bit strong for some and when that made spending their time here less enjoyable than they thought it should be in order to spend their time here some have in fact chosen to leave.

It happens, and yes you have done it and yes you know how you can do less of it. We all do. It's not that big a deal to admit to it.

I'm going to disagree with you here, Robert.

I have not done it...NOR HAVE YOU.

If someone leaves...it is almost certainly not because of what you or I have said. It is much, much more likely they simply do not have the stomach for what happens in Internet discussions.

I can tell you without a doubt that people have left this forum suggesting that I have driven them from it...people who have posted comments to me and others that made the worst of mine look like the work of a saint.

Nobody ever drove anyone with any spine from this forum.

And as for the IGNORE...I have heard people put me on IGNORE who have had raging battles with others...in battles where both of the participants have said things I would not think of saying. They put me on IGNORE not because I am a cretin or troublemaker, but because I can argue reasonably on any of the matters that are important to me.

With the exception of one person (Setanta) who made a vocation of being insulting to me...I have kept my remarks on a relatively high plane in this forum.

The atheists (of which there are many) here do not like my agnostic take...or the way I deal with their scorning, demeaning attitude toward the theists here.

Tough.

But they deserve every word I've ever sent their way.

Once again...I will live with whatever changes you choose to make here...and continue to treat this forum with respect...(a lot more respect than I see some of the complainers showing)

...but I will not accept that I have driven anyone from this forum. If I have been as an excuse for people leaving...I suggest as respectfully as possible that they are lacking of the stomach for the kind of thing that goes on in EVERY Internet forum. That is all it has been: Using me as an excuse.

I will match my conduct and postings (with that one exception) with ANYONE in the place...and I am ready to begin the moment someone posts a comment I've made that is considered exceptionally insulting or demeaning.

Anyone???

Interesting. It appears what you're saying is there need be no individual accountability taken for any kind of offense bad enough to inspire someone to pack their bags and say "Enough, this is not worth it." If they leave, they "don't have the stomach".

What's interesting is that your refusal to see any personal culpability in sometimes stepping across lines of civility (except of course when you deem them to "deserve it") like most human beings will do from time to time, makes Robert's case that there need be some regulating authority to impose accountability.

1 Reply

Frank wrote:

I've "finished" every one of these things you've ever started...and I will finish this one. In the meantime, you are a good guy. I like you. In fact, like all the rest of humanity...I love you.

Get control.

If you had ever finished everything, why are we still at it?

Your "control" thing is just a despicable way to demean people.

And you are a liar, as everybody knows.

2 Replies

@layman,

layman wrote:

It goes far beyond that. For reasons I've given, I think entire threads could become incomprehensible for those who are trying to follow the conversation. Even those neither blocking nor being block will suffer. Half the people might be trying to guess at what the other half is saying, and/or why they're even saying it.

I don't expect this part to be significant at all, we will make it something where they have to commit. They either have to block someone or not and don't get to have it both ways. And we'll probably eventually throw in checks and balances to it like not being able to do it and undo it rapidly (which allows for some abuse scenarios more easily) and the overall limit on how many you can block will not lend itself well to positional enmity and focus its use on personal enmity cases.

0 Replies

@McGentrix,

This is why we needed tablets too, because before this bathroom breaks were opportunities for the internet to be wrong!

1 Reply

Frank wrote:

Quote:

In fact, like all the rest of humanity...I love you.

Frank, this kind of treacly bullshit is exactly what I hate most about fake southern Christians that say "Well, bless your heart" when it's obvious they mean something else entirely. They have to say they love everyone because they see themselves as above mere mortal dislike or hate.

You'd make a good christian.

3 Replies

@Lordyaswas,

As long as people here just want to discuss it and don't have undue expectations that I must do it their way I don't mind, for the most part (there are certainly a few huge exceptions) the people here have been respectful of that, if perhaps insistent on their views (which I don't mind, I'm a similarly structured sort myself).

What really makes these conversations untenable are when people strongly believe that there is only one possible way for it to work, as long as we all recognize that these things just change community culture a bit one way or another and are not existential issues for the most part it's just another debate for those who find it worth debating it.

I sometimes find this level of navel gazing annoying and when I do I'll stop engaging with it but am going out of my way to in order to develop some degree of "buy in" to the upcoming changes.

1 Reply

@timur,

timur wrote:

Robert wrote:
You are being very ironic here. I mean, sure I get calling Frank that and any of us opinionated sorts but what are you doing here if not what you are accusing him of?

No, I really don't think so.

Frank verbally assaulted me for no reason when I was not even talking to him.

Not only that but his claims as to know what I think and what kind of atheism I am are really exasperating.

When he shows some civility and respects my atheism, I'll return the favor...

I have NEVER started a dust-up with you, Timur. You come into threads where I am discussing something...and you come in with a personal insult to me...not a comment on the topic of the discussion. You do that time and time again.

And since you want to lead with your face...I take advantage. I am strictly a counter puncher. Stay out of my way...and I will NEVER challenge you.

YOU started it in this thread, for instance...like you have in every other thread in which we have done battle.

1 Reply

The rules are changing, we are going to start showing the assholes the door

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