1
   

Far-left liars endanger us all

 
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 10:56 am
BUT ... a skilled distraction from having to come back on your "Swolf has never made a single attack towards a single poster on A2K" thing ... Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 10:58 am
McG, in a fit of pique, wrote:
Read swolf's post again and once you realize what an ass you have made of yourself here, just remember that I won't think any less of you than I already do.


That's also pretty timeout-worthy.

I am of course heart-broken that you think so little of me...
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 11:00 am
I don't think much of ya, either, PeeDid, but a check in an appropriate sum could remedy the lacuna . . . make that to:

Setanta
Lost in Ohia
New Nited States


Appropriate panegyrics will be forthcoming in my inimitable style upon receipt of the funds.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 11:00 am
I really do ehBeth, so I can better understand the leftist brain. I need to be better equiped to deal with such outrageously warped senses of outrage.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 11:03 am
Setanta wrote:
I don't think much of ya, either, PeeDid, but a check in an appropriate sum could remedy the lacuna . . .


I've already got all the friends I can afford, you flea-bitten little mongrel... :wink:

Isn't your species supposed to be free to me, anyway?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 11:04 am
In a pig's eye . . . i'm easy, but i ain't cheap . . .
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 11:14 am
Moishe3rd wrote:
In my brief foray into the topic, "Doesn't Anybody Deal with Facts," I realized that the (right wing) critics were correct. The taunt that "if you show me your facts, I'll show you mine," is a pointless exercise in one-upmanship.

Only if you have no facts to begin with.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
The Iraq Survey Group (ISG), whose intelligence analysts are managed by Charles Duelfer, a former State Department official and deputy chief of the U.N.-led arms-inspection teams, has found "hundreds of cases of activities that were prohibited" under U.N. Security Council resolutions...

Prohibited activities are not WMDs.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
Both Duelfer and his predecessor, David Kay, reported to Congress that the evidence they had found on the ground in Iraq showed Saddam's regime was in "material violation" of U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441...

Material violations are not WMDs.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
Both Duelfer and Kay found that Iraq had "a clandestine network of laboratories and safe houses with equipment that was suitable to continuing its prohibited chemical- and biological-weapons [BW] programs"...

Laboratories and safe houses are not WMDs.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
"Where were the missiles? We found them," another senior administration official told Insight.

Missiles are not WMDs unless they have nuclear, chemical, or biological warheads.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
"Saddam Hussein's prohibited missile programs are as close to a slam dunk as you will ever find for violating United Nations resolutions"...

Prohibited missile programs are not WMDs.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
A prison laboratory complex that may have been used for human testing of BW agents and "that Iraqi officials working to prepare the U.N. inspections were explicitly ordered not to declare to the U.N."

Laboratories are not WMDs.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
"Reference strains" of a wide variety of biological-weapons agents were found beneath the sink in the home of a prominent Iraqi BW scientist. "We thought it was a big deal," a senior administration official said. "But it has been written off [by the press] as a sort of 'starter set.'"

Biological "strains" are not WMDs.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
New research on BW-applicable agents, brucella and Congo-Crimean hemorrhagic fever, and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin that were not declared to the United Nations.

Research is not a WMD.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
A line of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), or drones, "not fully declared at an undeclared production facility and an admission that they had tested one of their declared UAVs out to a range of 500 kilometers [311 miles], 350 kilometers [217 miles] beyond the permissible limit."

UAVs are not WMDs, unless they have some sort of capacity for delivering nuclear, chemical, or biological payloads.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
"Continuing covert capability to manufacture fuel propellant useful only for prohibited Scud-variant missiles, a capability that was maintained at least until the end of 2001 and that cooperating Iraqi scientists have said they were told to conceal from the U.N."

Fuel propellant is not a WMD.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
"Plans and advanced design work for new long-range missiles with ranges up to at least 1,000 kilometers [621 miles] - well beyond the 150-kilometer-range limit [93 miles] imposed by the U.N. Missiles of a 1,000-kilometer range would have allowed Iraq to threaten targets throughout the Middle East, including Ankara [Turkey], Cairo [Egypt] and Abu Dhabi [United Arab Emirates]."

Plans for missiles are not WMDs.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
...the ISG learned the Iraqi government had made "clandestine attempts between late 1999 and 2002 to obtain from North Korea technology related to 1,300-kilometer-range [807 miles] ballistic missiles - probably the No Dong - 300-kilometer-range [186 miles] antiship cruise missiles and other prohibited military equipment," Kay reported.

Clandestine plans to procure missiles are not WMDs.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
In testimony before Congress on March 30, Duelfer, revealed that the ISG had found evidence of a "crash program" to construct new plants capable of making chemical- and biological-warfare agents.

Crash programs are not WMDs.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
The ISG also found a previously undeclared program to build a "high-speed rail gun," a device apparently designed for testing nuclear-weapons materials.

Plans for rail guns are not WMDs.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
That came in addition to 500 tons of natural uranium stockpiled at Iraq's main declared nuclear site south of Baghdad, which International Atomic Energy Agency spokesman Mark Gwozdecky acknowledged to Insight had been intended for "a clandestine nuclear-weapons program."

Stockpiles of natural uranium are not WMDs.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
In taking apart Iraq's clandestine procurement network, Duelfer said his investigators had discovered that "the primary source of illicit financing for this system was oil smuggling conducted through government-to-government protocols negotiated with neighboring countries [and] from kickback payments made on contracts set up through the U.N. oil-for-food program"

Illicit financing is not a WMD.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
The October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate on Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction concluded that Saddam "probably has stocked at least 100 metric tons (MT) and possibly as much as 500 MT of CW [chemical warfare] agents - much of it added in the last year."

Reports of possible stockpiles of WMDs are not WMDs.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
In an interview with Insight and in an article he wrote for the online magazine AmericanThinker.com, Hanson examines reports from U.S. combat units and public information confirming that many of Iraq's CW stockpiles have indeed been found. Until now, however, journalists have devoted scant attention to this evidence, in part because it contradicts the story line they have been putting forward since the U.S.-led inspections began after the war.

Hearsay accounts of chemical weapons caches are not WMDs.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
But another reason for the media silence may stem from the seemingly undramatic nature of the "finds" Hanson and others have described. The materials that constitute Saddam's chemical-weapons "stockpiles" look an awful lot like pesticides, which they indeed resemble. "Pesticides are the key elements in the chemical-agent arena," Hanson says. "In fact, the general pesticide chemical formula (organophosphate) is the 'grandfather' of modern-day nerve agents."

Pesticides are not WMDs.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
Plants inspected in the early 1990s as CW production facilities had been set up to appear as if they were producing pesticides - or in the case of a giant plant near Fallujah, chlorine, which is used to produce mustard gas.

Chlorine is not a WMD.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
When coalition forces entered Iraq, "huge warehouses and caches of 'commercial and agricultural' chemicals were seized and painstakingly tested by Army and Marine chemical specialists," Hanson writes. "What was surprising was how quickly the ISG refuted the findings of our ground forces and how silent they have been on the significance of these caches."

Commercial and agricultural chemicals are not WMDs.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
Caches of "commercial and agricultural" chemicals don't match the expectation of "stockpiles" of chemical weapons. But, in fact, that is precisely what they are. "At a very minimum," Hanson tells Insight, "they were storing the precursors to restart a chemical-warfare program very quickly." Kay and Duelfer came to a similar conclusion, telling Congress under oath that Saddam had built new facilities and stockpiled the materials to relaunch production of chemical and biological weapons at a moment's notice.

Stockpiles of "precursors" are not WMDs.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
At Karbala, U.S. troops stumbled upon 55-gallon drums of pesticides at what appeared to be a very large "agricultural supply" area, Hanson says.

Pesticides are not WMDs.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
Near the northern Iraqi town of Bai'ji, where Saddam had built a chemical-weapons plant known to the United States from nearly 12 years of inspections, elements of the 4th Infantry Division found 55-gallon drums containing a substance identified through mass spectrometry analysis as cyclosarin - a nerve agent.

Nerve agents are not WMDs, unless they are incorporated into a weaponized delivery system.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
Again, this January, Danish forces found 120-millimeter mortar shells filled with a mysterious liquid that initially tested positive for blister agents.

Mysterious liquids are not WMDs.

Kenneth R. Timmerman wrote:
"The Iraqis admitted they had made 3.9 tons of VX," a powerful nerve gas, but claimed they had never weaponized it. The U.N. inspectors "felt they had more. But where did it go?" The Iraqis never provided any explanation of what had happened to their VX stockpiles.

Reports of stockpiled WMDs are not WMDs.

We're still waiting for that proof, Moishe3rd.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 11:17 am
Are WMD's considered WMD's?
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 11:18 am
Setanta wrote:
Y'all got one a them aerie-ports, too, doncha, Joe?

Well, we used to have one more than we have now.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 11:20 am
Not when the Beeb article you cite contains the following statement:

The BBC wrote:
However, a senior coalition source has told the BBC the round does not signal the discovery of weapons of mass destruction or the escalation of insurgent activity.

He said the round dated back to the Iran-Iraq war and coalition officials were not sure whether the fighters even knew what it contained.


You don't even get a "nice try" for that one, McG . . .
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 11:21 am
How do you mean Set? It's not the quantity that we are looking for, but it definitely fits the description that Joefromchicago is using.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 11:21 am
You know, Joe, i once flew into Chicago-Midway. It was a harrowing experience. The aviation fuel facility sat in an intersection between the runways. Good thing that one's not in use any longer.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 11:29 am
joe:

http://www.thecoachingfactor.net/high-five.gif
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 11:34 am
McGentrix wrote:
How do you mean Set? It's not the quantity that we are looking for, but it definitely fits the description that Joefromchicago is using.

20-year-old leftover duds from the Iran-Iraq War: those are the WMDs that we were so afraid of?

"Given what's known about sarin shells, the US could be expected to offer a careful recital of the data with news of the shell. But facts that should have accompanied the story - the type of shell, its condition, whether it had been fired previously, and the age and viability of the sarin and precursor chemicals - were absent. And that's opened the door to irresponsible speculation that the shell was part of a live WMD stockpile."
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 11:43 am
It either is a WMD or it isn't. Which is it?
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 11:53 am
McGentrix wrote:
It either is a WMD or it isn't. Which is it?

Well, given that the shell exploded and that two demolitions experts who were attempting to defuse it were treated for minor exposure to the nerve agent, I would have to say that the shell was quite definitely not a weapon of mass destruction. Indeed, it wasn't even a weapon of limited destruction.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 11:53 am
McGentrix wrote:
It either is a WMD or it isn't. Which is it?

Well, according to the article you linked in, perhaps not ...:

Quote:
However, a senior coalition source has told the BBC the round does not signal the discovery of weapons of mass destruction
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 11:54 am
My neighbor's privacy
McGentrix wrote:
Debra_law, at what time is what your neighbor does your business? When they start screwing their dog? when the start screwing their kids? When they start selling drugs? When they start shooting people?

You want to live in an insular world where your neighbors business doesn't matter. That's fine. Just because they want to doit dosn't mean that I or anyone else should think that it's right.


Sorry McGentrix, I don't belong to the "Prevent thy Neighbor from Humping his Dog" police. I don't own binoculars; I don't spy over the fence; I don't check the neighbor's dog for signs of human penetration.

If my neighbor is sexually abusing his children, I do hope that his children will find the courage to confide in a responsible adult and that my neighbor will be held accountable for his crimes.

Do not fear, McGentrix. If my neighbor starts shooting people, I'll be the first one to dial 9-1-1. I think I am capable of discerning the difference between privacy issues and true crime. Are you?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 11:55 am
Oh i see Set already found that bit. You're not saying that senior coalition sources are lying are you McG? Shocked
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 11:57 am
That's why the terrorists are able to do what they do Debra_law. Because of people like you.
0 Replies
 
 

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