Black Lives Matter

Quote:

https://www.thefire.org/in-court/state-of-the-law-speech-codes/

Papish v. Board of Curators of University of Missouri, 410 U.S. 667 (1973)

Papish concerned a University of Missouri student distributing an underground student newspaper which contained an article entitled “************ Acquitted,” concerning the acquittal of a member of the radical group “Up Against the Wall, ************.” The student distributing the paper was expelled under a code of conduct that required students “to observe generally accepted standards of conduct” and prohibited “indecent conduct or speech.” The Court held that “the mere dissemination of ideas-no matter how offensive to good taste-on a state university campus may not be shut off in the name alone of ‘conventions of decency.'”

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@wmwcjr,

Ask away.

Yes, I would have had a very real problem with Byrd if he was a Republican as I will with any of the Republicans accused of being Klansman if the accusations prove to be true. You hated to ask the question because you thought you knew the answer and (nice guy that you are), you didn't want to put me on the spot. Not to worry, I'm not on the spot.

Of course there is a tendency to forgive certain sins in people we like and support that we would never tolerate in people we oppose. I'm sure I'm guilty of this at times, but being part of the KKK is something that should (and in my case would) not be such a "sin" because having committed it, I would no longer like or support the person.

Action that amounts, at least, to criminal negligence and results in the death of a young woman being sexually exploiting is another such sin. I'm glad you're fessing up to your past error of judgement regarding Teddy, but forgive me wmwcjr if I suggest that it is uncharacteristically pompous of you to assume that this give you the right to assume and imply, without evidence, that I have made the very same mistake.

Strom Thurmond, may or may not have been in the KKK, but he's right there with Senator Byrd. One of the gravest mistakes made by the GOP was the acceptance, for the sake of power, of the Dixiecrat trash that fled a Democrat Party that after decades had decided to part with its racist past. In so doing, the GOP lost the right to the mantle of "Party of Lincoln."

Helms was by no means a Strom Thurmond although he is quite lazily lumped together with him whenever folks want to criticize the GOP, but I was never a supporter and never voted for him when lived in NC.

As for Nixon's "consideration" of Byrd for the USC, I suggest you need to read beyond the first line of wherever you found that or research the matter a bit more. The consideration of Byrd for the USC was in response to the defeat of his nominee Harrold Carswell. Nominating Byrd would have been an entirely political move and the sort of nasty, bare knuckle move, motivated by anger, of which Nixon was fond. Nixon knew that the Democrats wouldn't want to support Byrd, but the WV Senator, despite his cartoonish persona, was a man of considerable power in the Senate. Opposing Byrd's nomination on the Senate floor would have created a significant internal conflict for the Democrats and anyone who did would have suffered the wrath of the former Exalted Cyclops. On the other hand, supporting the nomination of an obviously unqualified former Klansman would have been a considerable embarrassment for the Dems. The notion that Democrat Senators convinced Nixon not to nominate Byrd is revisionist nonsense. Nixon would have loved to roll the Byrd grenade into the Senate, but he wasn't about to waste a USC appointment on a fit of pique and a clown like Byrd.

As for the Civil Rights Act, I didn't express an opinion on whether or not it should have been passed, just the fact that Byrd vigorously opposed it. You have missed my entire point in your anxiousness to post another comment about sympathy for the Civil Rights movement and attempting to "balance the scales" between Democrats and Republicans.

Robert Byrd is a perfect example of the double standard applied by Democrats who want to make a big deal of unfounded accusations concerning KKK membership by Republicans. I could add that he is a perfect example of the forgiving nature of Democrats, but I don't believe that. There are a great many hypocrites in the GOP, but at this point in time there is a liberal chortling over the possibility that one or more members of the GOP are also members of the KKK, so it's appropriate, I think, to illuminate a significant example of Democrat hypocrisy. Introducing sins of Republicans who might rival Byrd is beside the point.

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@hawkeye10,

"We" are talking about Byrd, because bobsal is talking about GOP members of the KKK. Is it really that difficult to follow?

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@izzythepush,

You're always trying to put words in other people's mouths so whereas this might be considered clever from someone else, it just tiresome from you.

It does raise the question though as to why Byrd didn't like many of his fellow Dixiecrats, flee to the GOP at the time of the Civil Rights Act. Just speculation on my part, but I imagine that for Byrd, "loyalty" to his party was a major consideration plus the fact that by then he had wormed his way well inside the Democrat party and was not prepared to risk the power he had amassed.

It also raises the question of what the Democrat Party would have done had so many of the Dixiecrats not fled.

Based on the Byrd experience the answer would seem to be: "Very little."

Within recent years the Party has moved more leftward and it's possible that at some point a left-wing insurgency would have developed (similar to the GOP's Tea Party) that acted to clear out old wood through primary contests, but for decades after the Civil Rights Act, the Democrats would have had to deal with Dixiecrats like Strom Thurmond who had no trouble getting elected, but who were having trouble working with other Democrats. Yet another reason why it may have been a politically smarter decision by the GOP to reject overtures of Dixiecrats looking for a new home. Hindsight is, of course, 20/20 and who knows how things would have played out for a GOP without a "Southern Strategy," but it's amusing to imagine the constant state of conflict that would have existed if Dixiecrats had remained Democrats. It would have made the GOP's Tea Party "problem" pale by comparison.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Let see this right wing extremist is a member of the democratic party and who voted two times for Obama for president.

I am for ending as must as possible the so call war on drugs and moving toward a public health approach to to the drug problem.

I am for the right of all women to decide if they wish to carry a fetus to term or not.

Oh I am for greatly reducing the prison population by reducing the length of sentences for non-violence crimes.

So Izzy what far right organization would I fit into in your opinion?

Izzy can't help himself. For him, "right wing" is a pejorative. He's addicted to hyperbole (see him in full glory in his rants about Israel) and his notion of an "extremist" is anyone not willing to toe the line of his ideology. Notwithstanding his degree of intellectual constipation, and stripping the term of his intended insult, though, I don't think he can be considered well off the mark for using the term "right wing" to describe many of the views you've expressed in this forum.

I know, people generally don't like to be labeled when it comes to their political opinions, but such labels while not entirely precise, can be useful. What I don't get is why you feel compelled to try and convince Izzy you are not "right wing."

First of all it matters not at all what you tell him, he has cast you as a "right wing extremist" and that isn't about to change, and secondly, why would you care how he describes you?

I'm sure you have your reasons for being a member of the Democrat Party and for voting for Obama twice but you should realize that the "evidence" you've provided doesn't prove anything other than you hold opinions that are contrary to Izzy's stereotypical notion of a "right wing extremist."

Labeling can be problematic at time. Are Libertarians "right wing" or "left wing? You could be described, on some matters, as libertarian.

The points you have laid out are not inconsistent with a "conservative" view point. They may not reflect the opinions of a majority of Republican voters, but anyone can agree with you on these points and honestly call themselves a conservative. At the same time, none of these points are particularly "left wing"

Aside from proving very little about how you should be accurately labeled, you are giving credence to Izzy's invective.

There are one or two other members who seem to feel strangely attached to a view of themselves that isn't supported by what they write. You are, by no means, the most obvious of case, and you've not manufactured a persona which you think is "cool" but rarely resemble, but it does seem that you are reluctant to part ways with a self-image you may have developed in much earlier days.

You're perfectly welcome to despise Republicans and abhor conservatism. There's also nothing to stop you from saying you do and then writing as if you don't, but I've seen this phenomena in the past: People's views about all sorts of subjects change but they are reluctant to accept the changes because they are counter to an ideology that was developed during the idealistic days of their youth; when they accepted, without question, that the Left was cool and good and the Right was dull and bad. Some people view their evolution to more mature and sensible thought as something like a disease process brought on by aging. Their new way of thinking makes perfect sense to them but they can't help but feel that they have moved to the Dark Side, that life may have beaten them down into selfish cynicism. Certainly this what the Left, using it's powerful propaganda weapons of the news and entertainment media, want you to think, and what folks like Izzy will fully endorse.

My comments may be as off the mark when it comes to you as Izzy's, but I just want to throw out there that if you at all feel ashamed of having certain opinions that can be described as "right wing," you probably are partially stuck in the days of your youth. It's silly to be stuck there and sillier to allow Izzy to push your buttons.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Far right wing is someone who denigrates black victims and praises white killers. BillRM does that all the time.

Btw, your Democrat party is to the right of our Conservative party. Like football, the rest of the world does not accept American definitions.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

You're always trying to put words in other people's mouths so whereas this might be considered clever from someone else, it just tiresome from you.

Only because it makes you look like an idiot. I can see why you get tired of that, and why it took you about two weeks to come up with a predictably lame response.

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@izzythepush,

The big problem I have with TonyRM is his continual basing of his criticisms on the race of those involved.

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@bobsal u1553115,

Quote:

The big problem I have with TonyRM is his continual basing of his criticisms on the race of those involved.

Oh and this comment is from a person who think that anyone who wear a blue uniform can not wait to gun down some poor black victim in cold blood.

All used of deadly force by police officers against black citizens should be assume to not be justify unless proven otherwise instead of the other way around.

1 Reply

@bobsal u1553115,

He's another one who can't see beyond outdated stereotypes. It's not just black people, it's everything and everyone.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

He's another one who can't see beyond outdated stereotypes. It's not just black people, it's everything and everyone.

If you dont think race matters in America you are not paying attention. And while I have a big problem with this all race all the time thing we have going on to call race an outdated stereotype in American is idiotic.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

TonyRM, that's BS and you know it.

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Student charged with allegedly making online threat targeting African Americans on MU campus
Source: KC Star

The Boone County prosecutor on Wednesday afternoon charged a 19-year-old Lake St. Louis man with allegedly making an online threat targeting African Americans on the University of Missouri’s campus.

The prosecutor charged Hunter M. Park with making a terroristic threat and requested that no bond be set at this time.

“I’m going to stand my ground tomorrow and shoot every black person I see,” the post on the anonymous social media platform Yik Yak apparently read.

University of Missouri police became aware of the threat on Yik Yak and other social media sites. During its investigation, police traced the postings to Park and contacted Missouri S&T police for assistance.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article44216625.html

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@hawkeye10,

Of course race matters, that's why it's black kids getting shot and not white kids.

Actually, the scales just fell from my eyes, and I saw what you actually meant. It's not easy thinking down to your level.

You're actually confusing race with stereotyping. Your outdated stereotypical view of race is not race. They're not the same thing. Really.

You may need to view the world through comic book caricatures in order to feel more secure, but most people don't.

People are people.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

People are people

And trees are trees.

And Eastern White Pines are Eastern White Pines.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Quote:

You may need to view the world through comic book caricatures in order to feel more secure, but most people

I dont think you have enough reality based experience to know what most people think. I know that you are not smart enough to get your mind around how I think.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

You and reality aren't even on nodding terms, you simply can't comprehend reality. That's why you talk bollocks all the time.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
People are people

And trees are trees.

And Eastern White Pines are Eastern White Pines.

And primates are primates.

And people are people.

And your analogy has just gone down the shitter.

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Quote:

Rather than cultivating it, these Wesleyan students are honing an approach to conflict that eschews persuasion. Any skills they gain as a result will be useless off campus. In the real world, they will never succeed in preemptively suppressing criticism of Black Lives Matter in the press or shutting down press outlets that upset them, and they will be arrested for trashing published material that they dislike.

Their success isn’t even assured inside the Wesleyan bubble.

President Roth’s statement appeared on his blog. He warned against student demands for ideological conformity. “We always have the right to respond with our own opinions, but there is no right not to be offended,” he wrote. “We certainly have no right to harass people because we don’t like their views. Censorship diminishes true diversity of thinking; vigorous debate enlivens and instructs.”

Through differences, he concluded, “we can learn from one another.”

Here’s the nonsense rebuttal one student offered in comments: “The biggest problem with treating this as a freedom of speech issue is that this speech actively silences other speech.” Activists are trashing whole issues of a newspaper, never mind the “collateral damage” to numerous writers and photographers who aren’t even accused of wrong-think, and it is the newspaper that is accused of silencing others!

Here’s another response:

Quote:

Reading through these comments is enough to see that you have offended and hurt people who have faced violence through structural racism (including police brutality) and have opened up the floor for white supremacist rhetoric that vilifies and demonizes people who are fighting police brutality which by the way are often people who have been affected by it!

I ask you all to please take down this post.

It is as if the only rhetorical move these students know is trying to delegitimize critics by labeling them violent or insensitive. If their targets refuse to consent to their own stigmatization, the student activists are rendered powerless. How did anyone read the president’s statement and think those rebuttals would be effective? Empowering these young people requires showing them a better way, but so long as they’re eager to do away with a free press their ineffectiveness has its upsides.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/will-black-lives-matter-be-a-movement-that-persuades/407017/

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/will-black-lives-matter-be-a-movement-that-persuades/407017/

We have seen this same approach these last two weeks at university of missouri and at Yale. We are watching them also actively try to shut down any journalism in these events because they think their story is the only story that should be told, because it is their way or the highway. They are not interested in what anyone else thinks unless we agree with them, and in a lot of cases they dont care unless we take the the barricades with them to shout down and otherwise punish all non believers.

Needless to say but I will anyways the beliefs and morals of the BLM movement runs very much against my own. They are not eligible for my support unless they change a great deal.

1 Reply

Second student apprehended for threats on social media
Source: KOMU

MARYVILLE -For the second time in a single day, a Missouri college student has been arrested for making threats on the social media site Yik Yak.

Northwest Missouri State University announced Wednesday afternoon it has taken Connor Stotlemyre into custody.

Stotlemyre is accused of making threats overnight and was taken into custody at about 11 a.m. at his residence hall on campus. Stottlemyre has not be charged yet.

University police began an investigation after receiving a report that the suspect made threats on Yik Yak to hurt others. Students and employees received a notification email about the incident around 8:30 a.m.

Read more: http://www.komu.com/news/second-student-apprehended-for-threats-on-social-media/

1 Reply

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