BillRM
 
  -2  
Tue 10 Nov, 2015 08:42 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Quote:
In 2010, two white students who scattered white cotton balls in front of the Black Culture Center during Black History Month were allowed to plead guilty to littering ...


Those two white boys should had been hung for such a crime.

Quote:
She recalled jogging along a road in May when a white man in a truck flying a Confederate flag stopped, spat at her, called out a racist slur and sped off ...


Hell we get some more rope and track down the redneck spitter and used the same hanging tree that we hung the cotton balls litters.

For the annoying actions of a very few over many years of time, we should do what? I also remember listing some real criminal misdeeds on this website and Bob replying that was decade or more ago and yet cotton balls in 2010 is still of current concerns in Bob mind???

While the redneck spitter could had been charge with misdemeanor battery or attempted misdemeanor battery depending if his aim was good or not I am at a lost for what the cotton ball litters could had been charge with other then littering.

Of course I guess we could have charge them with the hate crime of littering.

We are raising a generation of very thin skin people it would seems but on the other hands we told that when BLM marchers chat about killing police we should be understanding.

Sometime I think we are living in a Heinlein novel dealing with his idea of the crazy years.

BillRM
 
  -2  
Tue 10 Nov, 2015 09:23 pm
@BillRM,
Footnote concerning the evil cotton ball litters given that the SC had ruled that burning the American flag to show disagreement and disrespect for the US and the US government is a form of protected speech under the constitution I can not see why the act of placing cotton balls would not also be a form of protected speech concerning contempt for the idea of a black history month for example.

Too bad the evil litters did not go to federal court as it would had been an interesting case.





0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -3  
Tue 10 Nov, 2015 10:33 pm
My lord the Missouri University police are planning on becoming the first in the nation PC police for real and the hell with the first amendment.

We are living in interesting times indeed.

Quote:
The Missouri University Police Department (MUPD) sent an email to students Tuesday morning urging them to call them and report any hurtful speech they encounter on the campus.

In an email that was flagged by several Missouri-based journalists, the MUPD asked “individuals who witness incidents of hateful and/or hurtful speech or actions” to call the department’s general phone line “to continue to ensure that the University of Missouri campus remains safe.” They suggest that students provide a detailed description of the offender, their location or license plate number, and even to take a picture if possible.[/quot
e]
BillRM
 
  -2  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 03:24 am
@BillRM,
Damn first amendment interfering with the idea of having an utopia campus where no on is allowed to say anything that might upset someone else.


Quote:


http://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/higher_education/two-law-professors-aclu-of-missouri-believe-mu-police-suggestion/article_4ace3e90-87fe-11e5-bb9e-a34ae35e0a79.html

COLUMBIA — After the MU Police Department said Tuesday that students and staff should call them after hearing "hateful and/or hurtful speech," two attorneys took issue with the suggestion.

The department, in its email, said: "While cases of hateful and hurtful speech are not crimes, if the individual(s) identified are students, MU's Office of Student Conduct can take disciplinary action."

Sandy Davidson, an adjunct professor at the MU School of Law who teaches communications law, said that the email could lead to infringement of First Amendment rights.

"You can't restrict free speech based on concepts of decency," Davidson said. "The First Amendment is not to protect 'pretty' speech; it's designed to protect offensive speech."

Gregory Magarian, a Washington University in St. Louis law professor who specializes in free-speech issues, said the vagueness of the email is problematic. The email only says that students should report "hateful and/or hurtful speech," but doesn't define what that is.

"One cardinal rule in law on deciding what speech can be restricted is: Don't be vague," Magarian said. "If you are trying to strike the balance between what is restricted and what is not, you can't be vague and you can't leave authorities with too much latitude to interpret what speech is OK, and what speech is not."

Magarian said that there could be a "chilling effect" on free speech at MU.

He said that when speech is restricted, but it's not clear which speech is restricted, people are more cautious about what they say.

"It's important to make sure you don't chill, punish or deter speech that is protected and (speech) that doesn't fall into that zone of being threatening or unduly aggressive," Magarian said.

On Tuesday night, the American Civil Liberties Union of Missouri voiced its "disappointment" in the new MU Police Department initiative.

"The ACLU of Missouri is disappointed with the recent request by the University of Missouri Police to report ‘hurtful speech,’ which simultaneously does too much and too little," Jeffrey Mittman, Executive Director of the ACLU of Missouri, said in a statement. "Racial epithets addressed to a specific person in a threatening or intimidating manner can be illegal, and may require action by police and/or university administrators. But, no governmental entity has the authority to broadly prohibit ‘hurtful’ speech — or even undefined ‘hateful’ speech, or to discipline against it."

Magarian said though he is not an expert on university discipline, he's puzzled as to why calling the police would be encouraged when no crime is committed.

"Intuitively, you would think that if an incident happens on campus that's not a crime, then that should go to the university first," Magarian said. "And then, if the incident is of such outrageous conduct that it's illegal, too, then the university would refer it to law enforcement."

He added, "Whenever police get involved in any kind of action against someone's conduct, or behavior of speech, it ups the ante — the police are involved, that's serious stuff. And the fact that police are taking the lead here, maybe they're trying to send the message that the university takes this stuff seriously, but it seems like an odd place to start."

MU has definite race problems, but the new suggestion isn't the best way to handle the problem, Magarian said.

"This is not how to handle this problem in the best way," he said. "The vagueness of the terms, and the way the process works as described in the email is a real problem for some people who want to say things within their First Amendment rights."

Davidson took issue with the accuracy of the email itself. The email states that harmful and hurtful speech isn't illegal, but that's not always the case, Davidson said.

"If you put a person in fear of his or her own life, that is a crime," Davidson said. "The email is too broadly stated when it says 'cases of hateful and/or hurtful speech are not crimes.'"

She cited the Missouri Peace Disturbance Statute, which states when someone's free speech can be restricted. Included in this statute is "offensive language addressed in a face-to-face manner to a specific individual and uttered under circumstances which are likely to produce an immediate violent response from a reasonable recipient."

Davidson said she understands the intent to make MU a more pleasant place, but the freedom of speech still exists.

"At a state university, you do have a right to free, even offensive speech," she said.

0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 05:56 am
This black life only mattered one month's worth.

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -2  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 08:23 am
@BillRM,
Interesting four people on this thread by the votes down do not like the first amendment to the US Constitution and think it should be one of the jobs of the police to control what can and not not be said on a tax payers supported college campus by way of asking for complains to be reported to them.

Let look at the text they do not care for.

Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances
.

I can now see that we should change the amendment in part to read prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech unless that speech might tend to upset of hurt someone feelings

bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 08:52 am
@BillRM,
You have he mis-impression the First Amendment guaranties all speech. It most assuredly DOES NOT, as the SCOTUS has ruled MANY times.

What the First Amendment guaranties is FREE speech - that is speech will not be impeded by prior restraint. You can't be silenced by any law limiting speech and that's not the same saying all speech is protected: shouting "fire" in a theater, slandering or libeling, exhorting to treason etc.

All speech is free, but not all speech is protected. I am at liberty to say anything I want, but I also have the responsibility to accept the consequences. I am free to burn a Flag, but I might get a punch in the nose or arrested for inciting to riot. If I can accept the consequences I am free to make my "free" speech.

What makes the Bill of Rights alive is its not law chiseled into stone, but that I can challenge the consequences with it to test if a law regarding speech is Constitutional or not.
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 08:59 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Quote:
I might get a punch in the nose


A punch in the nose is free speech, too. But not protected speech. You can't be jailed before you punch somebody in the nose on the pretext it will prevent you from punching someone in the nose: that's 'prior' restraint. Until you actually do it, you are free to make your 'speech'.
BillRM
 
  0  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 09:03 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Most so call hate speech is indeed protected and the campus cops even stated they are not talking about crimes but cases where the university speech code is broken and so far when those codes are challenge in courts they had been found null and void.

If its a crime to state I will killed you or blind you or whatever harm you it is not a crime to state that all Jews are evil Christ killers or Muslims are all terrorists or black students are dumber then whites an so on.

Speech that express ideas that most people do not care for and consider hate speech is still protected speech by all courts rulings I am aware of.
BillRM
 
  0  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 09:09 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Sorry a punch in the nose is a criminal assault not protected speech in any manner and of course even a serous threat to punch you in the nose is not protected speech but a crime in and of itself.

However a statement that blacks are sub-human is protected speech for example or that all catholic priests are child molesters or................
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 09:11 am
@BillRM,
Most hate speech is NOT protected speech. That's why its called hate speech. The SCOTUS has ruled that speech made to incite violence is not protected and there are laws regarding "hate speech" that actually make some crimes have harsher punishment if they have "hate" components.

You really need to quit getting your information from RW blogs.
BillRM
 
  0  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 09:16 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Quote:


http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/12/19/speech-codes-the-biggest-scandal-on-college-campuses-today/

Believe it or not, 62 percent of colleges having “red light” speech codes is actually an improvement. In 2007, it was 75 percent. Progress has been made. But given that universities have been sued at least 22 times since 1989—with virtually every challenge leading to the university either settling and withdrawing its code or losing in court—why do speech codes persist?

There are four major factors that explain the tenacity of speech codes. First is the misguided belief that campuses must protect students, faculty, and administrators from offense of all kinds. Second is the dramatic expansion in the administrative class at universities over the past few decades. Third is ignorance among these armies of administrators of both First Amendment law and, perhaps more importantly, the moral principles and philosophy upon which that law is based.

Yet the fourth factor—fear of liability—may be most determinative. College lawyers incorrectly believe that speech codes can be a prophylactic measure against lawsuits for harassment or discrimination. This is wrong. Maintaining broad and vague speech codes won’t stave off lawsuits, and universities may easily prohibit true harassment while protecting free expression by adopting policies that track existing legal definitions. Yet speech codes persist in large part because university general counsels, often far more worried about the expense and bad press of a harassment lawsuit than the comparatively rare and inexpensive free speech lawsuit, have deemed it rational from a cost-benefit standpoint to censor.

FIRE has attempted to change this calculus by coordinating lawsuits over the years with cooperating attorneys, every single one of which has been successful in getting the speech code withdrawn, defeated, or reformed. Yet there has been only an incremental improvement in the number of schools that maintain speech codes. The fact that unconstitutional speech codes are still commonplace on college campuses is a scandal that should no longer be tolerated.

Greg Lukianoff is president of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE).


Comment on this story
Report Corrections
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 09:18 am
@BillRM,
Like I said, you don't have much grasp of Constitutional law.

Saying "TonyRM is sub-human" may be protected speech, saying "TonyRM is subuman, who's going to join with me and lynch him", probably isn't especially if your car is gassed up, you have a map to TonyRM's house and you have a brand new coil of rope all oiled up with a noose.

Shouting the "N" word to a group of blacks is probably not protected speech if your intent is to provoke violence.
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 09:21 am
@BillRM,
Actually that article says what I say. Reread it.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 09:23 am
@BillRM,
Fire is a fairly left wing outfit for you to be quoting!!!!!!
BillRM
 
  -1  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 09:25 am
@bobsal u1553115,
One on one repeat one on one expression to a person design to result in immediate violence IE fighting words can be illegal but not the expression of ideas on the public square such as the Nazis should have done a better job of killing the jews, that is why the American nazis party can have public rallies and it up to law enforcement to protected them or the KKK or the black panthers or......................
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 09:32 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Once more a direct threat of violence have never been protected speech but that if not what the speech codes on college campuses are all about.

That is why when they are challenge such codes are declare null and void by the courts.

Now a statement such as we should hang all the blacks on campuses unless you happen to at the time have a large supply of ropes to try to carry out your desire to hang all the blacks on campus is protected speech.
BillRM
 
  0  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 09:37 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Quote:
Fire is a fairly left wing outfit for you to be quoting!!!!!!


Why as I am more left wing then right wing in my view of social issues such as being against the drug war and being for the right of women not to carry fetuses to term, or for taxing the wealthy more then the poor and so on
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 09:40 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Once more a direct threat of violence have never been protected speech but that if not what the speech codes on college campuses are all about.


Like I said, all speech is not protected. You are free to speak freely any darn thing you want. The rub is: All speech is not protected. The Second Amendment guarantees your right to make speech whether it is protected or not protected without prior restraint.

I'm glad you finally agree with me, glad I could straighten out your confusion.
BillRM
 
  0  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 10:01 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Speech Code Rating
Quote:


https://www.thefire.org/spotlight/using-the-spotlight-database/#red

University of Missouri – Columbia has been given the speech code rating Red. A red light university has at least one policy that both clearly and substantially restricts freedom of speech. Read more here.
=================================

Red Light

A “red light” institution has at least one policy that both clearly and substantially restricts freedom of speech. A “clear” restriction is one that unambiguously infringes on what is or should be protected expression. In other words, the threat to free speech at a red light institution is obvious on the face of the policy and does not depend on how the policy is applied.

0 Replies
 
 

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