Black Lives Matter

Nice stories by the way

I should have given you a heads up Izzy, had Vikorr on ignore for ages. He's an elderly Australian desperately nostalgic for a world that never existed. He's poisoned by fear and ignorance. I have no doubt he voted One Nation (sort of like a less eloquent UKIP).

God help me that my brain never does that.

Oh dear. The disagreement I had with hingehead was that I said:

- aboriginal Australians need to take responsibility for their own destiny, who they are, what they do, where they are going...once they do this, they can start improving their lot in life (this is a principle I believe applies to every single person alive)
- the Australian government needs to take a long term, multi-generational view to help break their cycle of poverty (currently it's always a short term, single generation view)
- examples I provided that the government could try, was wide ranging boarding house scholarships for those who wanted better education. This sort of scheme would take multiple generations, but should eventually work.

I also pointed out the problems with reservations (in Australia), and how they keep the cycle of poverty going.

Hingehead got very upset at a number of these things. I still don't fully understand why. It seems like common sense to me. He certainly was unable to offer ideas of his own as solutions to the cycle of poverty that most of Aboriginal Australia is caught in.

It seems I ran into a field he is very passionate about, as his wife worked on a reservation. In any event, other than this particular disagreement, he seems like a genuinely nice guy in other posts of his that I've seen.

. Uh no. I voted independent. One Nation, and Pauline Hanson, are quite uneducated in their views.

Thanks I just thought we needed something positive to counter all the hatred and vitriol from Bob

Hmm...well, he is very passionate / ardent about it. Some of his examples certainly are very concerning (the autistic incident for example), and others of his examples - I think that at times he sees what he wants to see, rather than what is (in another thread he posted an article claiming racism, that seemed to me to be the exact opposite). As a body of evidence, I can see why Black Americans are concerned, and even angry.

That doesn't remove the need to evaluate each incident on its own merit, rather than with a preconceived notion. Every person asks this principle be applied to judgement of their own actions, but don't always apply it when judging others actions.

Nor does it remove the need for everyone, to see police officers as individuals, trying to protect the community. A blanket 'the police' is very unhelpful in solving a problem. Just as no group, anywhere, likes being tarred with the same brush as the criminals in their midst, it should go without saying that individual police officers feel exactly the same...but this eludes many people.

Weed the bad eggs out. Put in place policies to identify racism, misogyny etc. The best example I saw, was in an article bob used to claim racism - breakdown officer arrest stats by race, sex, age, etc. Relate that to the crime demographics of the local area. Over time, it should always roughly correlate with the crime demographic of the police stations area. Big anomalies can help identify racists, misogynists etc Action can then be taken against those officers.
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Yesterday, I was talking to a colleague about the autistic man & his carer incident. He said to me that last week, he was talking to an African American, who told him that he had a sick Aunty in the US, but was too scared to go back to America, because of the police situation over there.

I don't know what part of the US he came from. But those sort of statements, from a person now removed from the country, are very concerning.

I would agree with 99% of what you just said... it was well-reasoned an eloquently stated. The problem with Bob and others is that they are reactionaries and race baiters whose purpose is to inflame the argument for their own selfish reasons. They are not unlike the professional race-baiters and reactionaries who make a living by keeping the argument alive. They purposely inflame the issue to make it seem bigger than it is because it puts more money in their pocket. They all scream about justice but to them justice is if it agrees with their opinion, if it doesn't then it's an Injustice. They claim that they want to be presumed innocent until proven guilty but will not afford the police officer the same right. And while I believe that a police officer should be held to a higher standard administratively, when we made the police officer we did not remove the citizen... He is still entitled to the same rights of the presumption of innocence. People like Bob and the others are akin to 19th century vigilantes. They react solely on their a skewed perception and are hell-bent on retribution at any cost.
Also you can reassure your friend that the United States is still one of the safest places on Earth... It is not rampant with racist police officers who get up in the morning with only one thought; to kill any black man they may encounter. As far as the incident with the autistic man and his caretaker let me just say that if the police officer wanted to indiscriminately kill a black man he probably wouldn't have missed. The situation has all the earmarks of a tragic accident because after all we are still dealing with humans and not machines. And people like Bob and the members of Black lives matter only serve to exasperate the situation and put those human beings with their finger on the trigger on edge... A recipe for disaster.

The reason for my wording being the way it is - is that most people, even if they have blinkers on, are well meaning. Most people talking about a problem, even if they have blinkers on, are trying to achieve something good. So from this perspective, I am careful about categorising people. And I believe in making my own mind up, rather than following the pack.

From that perspective - anyone who has read my other threads will realise that:
- I give people many chances to articulate their views (even if they disagree ardently with me, spew vitriol etc)
- will ask about the logic, and the principles behind their views
- will point out double standards, etc.
- will point out behaviour where they are not addressing issues they perceive, but simply demonising, misrepresenting the 'other side'
...without labeling them, or their behaviour. It is only after repeated, ongoing: failure in logic, double standards, refusal to acknowledge evidence - that I will start talking about a habitual behaviour of theirs, as opposed to their views

I think you missed the point of that section of my post - although to be fair, I didn't properly articulate it: it was that the Black American felt that way in his own country (and was telling people so, once he removed himself from that situation). Whatever the cause, he came to the conclusion that he was unsafe there. It may be because of his experience with police, it may be because of propoganda from activist groups, it may be because of what he sees on TV & youtube...but he felt unsafe.

For years, Police Departments here talked about why Rape Victims didn't come to the police, and the department went out of it's way to fix their side of the issue. Then it was 'why don't victims of domestic violence come to police' and they went out of the way to fix that issue. These issues were about womens perception of the police (and justice systems). Perception, rightly or wrongly, has real power to affect police departments, and the job they do. The point was - it may be necessary for the police departments in the US to go out of their way to fix a perception issue.

I don't know. I don't know how big a problem is truly is over there. I think one would have to live in affected communities, or be exposed to the daily news etc, to accurately guage that.

I doubt it is either.

The issue is, it would only take a small percentage of police officers (let's say 1%) to cause real problems.

It is the same in the thread on violence in the name of Islam...the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful people...that doesn't mean there isn't a problem with Islamic Terrorism.

(the heading of the thread is 'Are there any peaceful Muslim Nations' - my take on such a question is that what it is truly asking is 'is Islam a Religion of Peace, or does the religions ideology promote violence in its name (Jihad)', and is that contributing to the Islamic Terrorism problems today)

Thanks mate, but I don't need one. I've come across him before on the Islamic countries thread. I know what he is, he does sound like he'd be well at home with Farridge's fascists, one of Turnbull's twats.

I was letting the rest know what he was like.

MICHAEL JORDAN: ‘I CAN NO LONGER STAY SILENT’

Last edited Mon Jul 25, 2016, 12:40 PM - Edit history (1)
Source: ESPN

His statement on the shootings of African-Americans and the targeting of police officers

“As a proud American, a father who lost his own dad in a senseless act of violence, and a black man, I have been deeply troubled by the deaths of African-Americans at the hands of law enforcement and angered by the cowardly and hateful targeting and killing of police officers. I grieve with the families who have lost loved ones, as I know their pain all too well.

“I was raised by parents who taught me to love and respect people regardless of their race or background, so I am saddened and frustrated by the divisive rhetoric and racial tensions that seem to be getting worse as of late. I know this country is better than that, and I can no longer stay silent. We need to find solutions that ensure people of color receive fair and equal treatment AND that police officers – who put their lives on the line every day to protect us all – are respected and supported.

Jordan speaks out on shootings of African-Americans, police

“Over the past three decades I have seen up close the dedication of the law enforcement officers who protect me and my family. I have the greatest respect for their sacrifice and service. I also recognize that for many people of color their experiences with law enforcement have been different than mine. I have decided to speak out in the hope that we can come together as Americans, and through peaceful dialogue and education, achieve constructive change.

“To support that effort, I am making contributions of $1 million each to two organizations, the International Association of Chiefs of Police’s newly established Institute for Community-Police Relations and the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. The Institute for Community-Police Relations’ policy and oversight work is focused on building trust and promoting best practices in community policing. My donation to the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, the nation’s oldest civil rights law organization, will support its ongoing work in support of reforms that will build trust and respect between communities and law enforcement. Although I know these contributions alone are not enough to solve the problem, I hope the resources will help both organizations make a positive difference.

“We are privileged to live in the world’s greatest country – a country that has provided my family and me the greatest of opportunities. The problems we face didn’t happen overnight and they won’t be solved tomorrow, but if we all work together, we can foster greater understanding, positive change and create a more peaceful world for ourselves, our children, our families and our communities.”

Read more: http://theundefeated.com/features/michael-jordan-i-can-no-longer-stay-silent/

You're right about those two issues rape and domestic violence being fixed it was happening just about the time I started my lawn forcement career and I remember the changes for the positive. I'm not sure it would work today the same way because although we did change the perception back then that was before the 24-hour news cycle who panders to the lowest common denominator like professional race-baiting black activists and groups like BLM... those are the people who will get the most coverage.

That is his favorite line to use when he can't prove what he "thinks" you are. He's used it against everyone he doesn't agree with.

They were all positive stories about the police and you will notice that they all got a large amount of vote downs... Cops are evil and must die, just ask any of the anti-cop people on this thread.

You're right of course but then again it doesn't bother me because they're just proving my point for me.