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The Case For Biden

 
 
Real Music
 
  1  
Fri 7 Jun, 2019 06:56 pm
@Lash,
Real Music wrote:
Joe Biden has several things working in his favor.

1. He is seen as a serious statesman.
2. He is seen as someone who commands gravitas.
3. He is someone who is genuinely liked by democrats and independents on a personal level.
4. Probably the biggest thing working in his favor is he was Barack Obama's vice president for 8 years.

No one is guaranteed to win the primaries.
Although he is the frontrunner, he still is going to have to put the work in, in order for him to win the primary.

Regardless of who wins the primaries for democrats, I will definitely be voting for the democrat in 2020.

Lash wrote:
Quote:
Half of those things aren’t true—the rest matter not. He’s tanking from a blizzard of lies and inconcionable insults across a wide spectrum.

They shouldn’t have trotted him out.

Can you specify which half of those things you believe aren't true?
And which half of those things that you believe doesn't matter?
Lash
 
  1  
Fri 7 Jun, 2019 07:04 pm
@Real Music,
1. and 2. are outright wrong. He’s a goofball gaffe machine of epic proportions. If you follow the news, you JUST SAW his enormously damaging one day flip flop on the Hyde amendment. He was tanking so badly because of his ultra conservative stance that poorer women don’t deserve to decide whether they should continue their pregnancy that he did a 180 the next day. He stands for nothing and will say anything.

3. George Bush was well-liked too—someone people in both parties could see themselves having a beer with.
4. And...? Association with a former President is reason to trust you to do the job??
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  3  
Fri 7 Jun, 2019 11:36 pm
@Real Music,
Quote:
He is seen as a serious statesman


In the past week, he lost serious statesman status while leaping all over the place with statements on The Hyde Amendment. He's joined the ever-growing ranks of annoying and disappointing expedient politicians.

Very disappointed with him. Whether I agree with or disagree with a person, I lose all respect for them when they change for what is clearly a stack of ballots to gain power for themselves. This was not a slow evolving change, this was a plea for votes.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Sat 8 Jun, 2019 04:39 pm
It’s kind of weird. There have now been days of excoriation from some about Biden’s change on the Hyde Amendment.

I remember when Biden did a flip on marriage equality - from being against it, to being for it. He not only just flipped his own stance, but he presented the flip as the new position of the Obama administration (as it turned out, without prior discussion with Obama). He was hailed as courageous and bold, and celebrated and given credit for moving the party left on this issue.
What’s the difference here? Is it just because the LGBTQ+ community is not as large a voting block as the POC community (who would be directly affected by taking away federal funding for healthcare)?
roger
 
  4  
Sat 8 Jun, 2019 07:09 pm
@snood,
Of course, the issue isn't the issue, if you take my meaning. It's that he changed what seems a moral stance for the sake of gaining votes.
Lash
 
  1  
Sat 8 Jun, 2019 07:09 pm
@snood,
There’s no difference.

Some fools and liars say they believed him last time, and some fools and liars are saying they believe him this time.

0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Sun 9 Jun, 2019 02:10 am
@roger,
Exactly the same thing he did with gay marriage- changed from a putatively moral stance to a putatively politically expedient stance. Why was one change celebrated and the other vilified?
snood
 
  1  
Sun 9 Jun, 2019 07:48 am
@snood,
I don’t even think putatively is a word. Substitute ‘supposedly’.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Sun 9 Jun, 2019 06:01 pm
Anyone care to venture an answer for why the difference in reactions to the two ‘flips’ I mentioned?
glitterbag
 
  3  
Sun 9 Jun, 2019 11:54 pm
@snood,
Endorsing marriage equality pissed off the morality squads but it didn't cost anything. Removing the hurdles for women's reproductive health also pisses off the morality squads but it will allow certain services to be provided to poor women.

We don't seem to care that sports stadiums are built with taxpayer money but the profits go to the football and baseball welfare recipient owners, but do something that might lift a person out of POVERTY, you are now in a heap of trouble.

I don't think this recent flip amounts to much, it doesn't make sense to deny health services to poor women and now the candidate can stop pretending that with holding health care for women somehow makes moral sense.

I'm not taking a position on abortion, I think it's a decision a women should make. I just don't believe it's a decision women make willy nilly, and it must be safe. They can outlaw safe abortion, but it won't stop abortion it will just make it a life threatening back ally procedure.
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  2  
Mon 10 Jun, 2019 03:22 pm
@snood,
My response was based on how he went one way and then the other in about a 24 hour period of time. If Biden had stuck with his statements on Hyde, when he said It had to go (before saying he misheard), I could have gone with it. However he backtracked and insisted he still supported The Hyde Amendment (again, he said he had not heard things correctly. Then, quicker than a sneeze, he was completely against The Hyde Amendment.

0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Mon 10 Jun, 2019 04:20 pm
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:

Real Music wrote:
Joe Biden has several things working in his favor.

1. He is seen as a serious statesman.

Really? By whom? Former Defense Secretary Bill Gates (who liked Uncle Joe a lot) wrote in his book that Biden was on the wrong side of every Foreign Policy issue confronted by the Obama Administration. Serious statesmen don't try and tell us that China's tyrants are "good folks" and that China is no competition for America. A Serious Statesman doesn't propose partition of Iraq as the solution to the turmoil following the war.

Obama, ostensibly, selected Biden as his VP to fill the void in his foreign policy experience. What were the results of the Obama Foreign Policy:

1) The terrible deal with Iran
2) Losing Iraq to Iran's influence
3) The rise of ISIS
4) Syria gassing its citizens
5) The Russian Reset and their interference in our 2016 election
6) The Libya quagmire that led to Benghazi

Either Biden wasn't listened to or he was on board with all of these.


2. He is seen as someone who commands gravitas.

Joe Biden the Gaffe Machine who is constantly touching and sniffing women and kids? Joe Biden who has to steal gravitas from the speeches of those more serious and eloquent than him?

3. He is someone who is genuinely liked by democrats and independents on a personal level.

This is generally true but it was also true the first two times he ran for the nomination and it, obviously, didn't do him any good.

4. Probably the biggest thing working in his favor is he was Barack Obama's vice president for 8 years.

I realize Obama is considered to be a divine figure among a great many Democrats, but do you image they actually believe some of his divinity rubbed off on Joe by virtue of proximity to The One?

No one is guaranteed to win the primaries.
Although he is the frontrunner, he still is going to have to put the work in, in order for him to win the primary.

Regardless of who wins the primaries for democrats, I will definitely be voting for the democrat in 2020.

Wow! What a surprise!


0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Tue 11 Jun, 2019 04:18 am
Quote:
“Joe has two things going for him: The polls say he can beat Trump, and he’s worked with Barack and he’s saying that he wants to restore us to that day. Well, the challenge is that people are looking forward to a new day and aren’t necessarily looking to the old days.”

-- Jesse Jackson
snood
 
  1  
Tue 11 Jun, 2019 08:33 am
@Olivier5,
Could you provide a source for that quote? A site, perhaps? Not doubting you, but it is too easy to lend veracity to our own opinions by attaching a famous name to them. When and under what circumstances did Rev. Jackson supposedly say this?
Olivier5
 
  1  
Tue 11 Jun, 2019 08:35 am
@snood,
I asked you something a few days ago, and you answered: "Google is your friend". Isn't it yours as well?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Tue 11 Jun, 2019 09:17 am
Biden’s First Run for President Was a Calamity. Some Missteps Still Resonate.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/06/03/us/politics/biden-1988-presidential-campaign.amp.html
Excerpt:
In 1988, Joe Biden was prone to embellishment. Hints of that linger today. But unlike then, his message to voters is clear: He’s a stabilizing statesman in a tumultuous time.

Joe Biden was riffing again — an R.F.K. anecdote, a word about “civil wrongs,” a meandering joke about the baseball commissioner — and aides knew enough to worry a little.

“When I marched in the civil rights movement, I did not march with a 12-point program,” Mr. Biden thundered, testing his presidential message in February 1987 before a New Hampshire audience. “I marched with tens of thousands of others to change attitudes. And we changed attitudes.”

More than once, advisers had gently reminded Mr. Biden of the problem with this formulation: He had not actually marched during the civil rights movement. And more than once, Mr. Biden assured them he understood — and kept telling the story anyway.

By that September, his recklessness as a candidate had caught up with him. He was accused of plagiarizing in campaign speeches. He had inflated his academic record. Reporters began calling out his exaggerated youth activism.

“I’ve done some dumb things,” Mr. Biden conceded at a stop-the-bleeding news conference at the Capitol. “And I’ll do dumb things again.”

He vowed that day to fight on. He quit the race within a week.

Thirty-two years later, as Mr. Biden seeks the presidency for a third time, his disastrous campaign for the 1988 Democratic nomination offers a revealing look at the personal tics and political flaws of the front-runner in the 2020 race — traits that, in many ways, continue to color Mr. Biden’s public life.

Mr. Biden announced his presidential campaign in Wilmington, Del., in June 1987.CreditKeith Meyers/The New York Times
Mr. Biden was, and remains, a “gut politician,” as he has long told associates — swaggering, ad-libbing, liable to get carried away in front of a crowd. Already this year, he has boasted of his purportedly peerless foreign policy knowledge, comparing himself favorably to Henry A. Kissinger, the former secretary of state. He has suggested, implausibly, that he has the most progressive record in the 2020 field. He has muddled through explanations of his treatment of Anita Hill when she accused Justice Clarence Thomas of sexual harassment, at times stopping himself midsentence to abandon a line of defense
Lash
 
  1  
Tue 11 Jun, 2019 09:26 am
Google was *my* friend, btw. Here’s Jesse Jackson’s quote.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/henrygomez/joe-biden-jesse-jackson-2020-election

Olivier5
 
  1  
Tue 11 Jun, 2019 09:49 am
@Lash,
Poor poor Snood. He's the only poster Google won't be friend with... :-)
snood
 
  3  
Tue 11 Jun, 2019 10:32 am
@Olivier5,
Touché, douche.
However, I hadn’t quoted anyone without citation.
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  2  
Tue 11 Jun, 2019 01:35 pm
@Lash,
The bar is now so low (down) that it all seems like “up” to me.

Where’s Ross Perot when you really need him?!
 

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