33
   

The Case For Biden

 
 
Lash
 
  3  
Wed 5 Jun, 2019 02:22 pm
Biden is fighting against poorer women being able to secure abortions while Bernie is up in the face of the Walmart Walton family, telling them to treat their employees like human beings.

Biden should be forced to run as a Republican.
Sturgis
 
  1  
Wed 5 Jun, 2019 03:12 pm
@Lash,
Abortion and fighting Walmart are separate issues. Therefore your (I guess) comparison between Sanders and Biden is irrelevant.
Lash
 
  3  
Wed 5 Jun, 2019 03:22 pm
@Sturgis,
It is completely relevant for all voters making a choice.
Sturgis
 
  1  
Wed 5 Jun, 2019 03:24 pm
@Lash,
How?
Please explain.
Lash
 
  2  
Wed 5 Jun, 2019 03:26 pm
@Sturgis,
Biden is as conservative as a Republican, and Bernie is an activist progressive. There is a VERY clear choice between them.
Sturgis
 
  2  
Wed 5 Jun, 2019 03:38 pm
@Lash,
I'm not saying they are twins politically. I just do not see the relevance of your comparison between the two, using Wal-Mart on one side and abortion on the other. That is what I'm seeking clarification on.


As to Biden, he's drifted a large distance the last fiftyish years. Drifting to the left a little at a time. It shows growth.

Sanders has been rather mired in one place. A good place, but shows inability to take in new ideas, some of which may be quite good.

If either can get to the General Election next year, they'll have my support. Actually, any Democrat will.

(Well, probably not DeBlasio. Then I'd be distressed, but living in New York, it likely wouldn't matter as Trump is soundly despised here.)
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  2  
Wed 5 Jun, 2019 04:41 pm
Joe Biden has several things working in his favor.

1. He is seen as a serious statesman.
2. He is seen as someone who commands gravitas.
3. He is someone who is genuinely liked by democrats and independents on a personal level.
4. Probably the biggest thing working in his favor is he was Barack Obama's vice president for 8 years.

No one is guaranteed to win the primaries.
Although he is the frontrunner, he still is going to have to put the work in, in order for him to win the primary.

Regardless of who wins the primaries for democrats, I will definitely be voting for the democrat in 2020.
Lash
 
  2  
Wed 5 Jun, 2019 05:03 pm
Joe is lying about “marching in Civil Rights protests.” He’s gone insane and he doesn’t care.
———————
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.pastemagazine.com/articles/2019/06/joe-biden-knowingly-lied-about-marching-in-the-cvi.html

I’m starting to think that Joe Biden cannot beat Trump. Sure, we’ve all been tricked into thinking that Biden is the “safe” candidate because he’s a white male in America who has the best name recognition in the race, but there’s a reason why Joe Biden never polled above 5% in a primary before this one. He’s an industrial-sized gaffe machine and a bad, cynical candidate who, like Trump, wants to return all of us to an idyllic period that never existed. Case in point is this jaw-dropping story from the 1988 presidential race, published yesterday in the New York Times:

“When I marched in the civil rights movement, I did not march with a 12-point program,” Mr. Biden thundered, testing his presidential message in February 1987 before a New Hampshire audience. “I marched with tens of thousands of others to change attitudes. And we changed attitudes.”

More than once, advisers had gently reminded Mr. Biden of the problem with this formulation: He had not actually marched during the civil rights movement. And more than once, Mr. Biden assured them he understood — and kept telling the story anyway.

First off, the notion that the civil rights movement lacked a policy vision is
insulting. Rosa Parks is famous for opposing a policy that forced black Americans to sit in the back of the bus. Martin Luther King Jr. constantly spoke about state power and how systemic racism creates outcomes which impoverish millions of people. Americans had separate water fountains and could not eat at the same counters. That’s all policy. This is stuff kids learn early in high school, and yet 1987 presidential candidate Joe Biden tried to characterize the civil rights movement (that he knowingly claimed to falsely be a part of) as simply one big group hug trying to “change attitudes.”

The next year, Joe Biden dropped out of the 1988 presidential race when it became clear that he had plagiarized excerpts of his speeches from other politicians. This was not the first time Biden had been caught stealing other people’s work (and I’m not referring to the story above where he takes credit for marching in the civil rights movement), as he admitted to plagiarizing at Syracuse law school.
—————
Lash
 
  1  
Wed 5 Jun, 2019 05:05 pm
@Real Music,
Half of those things aren’t true—the rest matter not. He’s tanking from a blizzard of lies and inconcionable insults across a wide spectrum.

They shouldn’t have trotted him out.
livinglava
 
  -1  
Thu 6 Jun, 2019 07:06 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

Joe is lying about “marching in Civil Rights protests.” He’s gone insane and he doesn’t care.
———————
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.pastemagazine.com/articles/2019/06/joe-biden-knowingly-lied-about-marching-in-the-cvi.html

I’m starting to think that Joe Biden cannot beat Trump. Sure, we’ve all been tricked into thinking that Biden is the “safe” candidate because he’s a white male in America who has the best name recognition in the race, but there’s a reason why Joe Biden never polled above 5% in a primary before this one. He’s an industrial-sized gaffe machine and a bad, cynical candidate who, like Trump, wants to return all of us to an idyllic period that never existed. Case in point is this jaw-dropping story from the 1988 presidential race, published yesterday in the New York Times:

“When I marched in the civil rights movement, I did not march with a 12-point program,” Mr. Biden thundered, testing his presidential message in February 1987 before a New Hampshire audience. “I marched with tens of thousands of others to change attitudes. And we changed attitudes.”

More than once, advisers had gently reminded Mr. Biden of the problem with this formulation: He had not actually marched during the civil rights movement. And more than once, Mr. Biden assured them he understood — and kept telling the story anyway.

First off, the notion that the civil rights movement lacked a policy vision is
insulting. Rosa Parks is famous for opposing a policy that forced black Americans to sit in the back of the bus. Martin Luther King Jr. constantly spoke about state power and how systemic racism creates outcomes which impoverish millions of people. Americans had separate water fountains and could not eat at the same counters. That’s all policy. This is stuff kids learn early in high school, and yet 1987 presidential candidate Joe Biden tried to characterize the civil rights movement (that he knowingly claimed to falsely be a part of) as simply one big group hug trying to “change attitudes.”

The next year, Joe Biden dropped out of the 1988 presidential race when it became clear that he had plagiarized excerpts of his speeches from other politicians. This was not the first time Biden had been caught stealing other people’s work (and I’m not referring to the story above where he takes credit for marching in the civil rights movement), as he admitted to plagiarizing at Syracuse law school.
—————

Changing attitudes is fundamentally connected to changing laws. If you tried to change laws without attitudes changing in tandem, you would end up with people feeling oppressed by the laws.
Lash
 
  3  
Thu 6 Jun, 2019 01:28 pm
@livinglava,
He changed fuckall.
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  1  
Thu 6 Jun, 2019 02:30 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:
..feeling oppressed by the laws.



Isn't that what is being felt now?

Changing laws does not always constitute creating happy citizens.


Law change - sometimes good, sometimes not. It depends whether a self-serving and/or corrupt politician is part of it.
livinglava
 
  -1  
Thu 6 Jun, 2019 03:23 pm
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote:

Quote:
..feeling oppressed by the laws.

Isn't that what is being felt now?

Changing laws does not always constitute creating happy citizens.


Law change - sometimes good, sometimes not. It depends whether a self-serving and/or corrupt politician is part of it.

Yes, that is what is being felt now. And some people, like Biden with Civil Rights, are trying to reach out and change attitudes; despite resistance and adherence to old (bad) laws.

If all we did was make strict reproductive laws and not reach out to change minds and hearts, things would end up like the Handmaid's Tale that is so popular right now for people who only believe that governmental regulation of abortion can result in oppression.

You could almost say that the Handmaid's Tale is to abortion laws what Birth of a Nation was to reconstruction. In other words, whenever you have a group of people who doesn't want to listen to reason, you end up with a propaganda narrative that characterizes the new state of society in terms of suffering at the hands of oppressors. It is a way of blocking out any positive discussion about new developments.

It's interesting to consider what kind of propaganda could have been created following MLK and the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s. There could have been movies depicting the various speeches and protests as if they were nazi parades championed by a screaming Hitler. It's amazing how propaganda can spin villainy as heroism and vice-versa. Have you ever seen Triumph of the Will, for example? It presents a very favorable view of Hitler and nazism, which is interesting to watch in light of what we now know about the Holocaust and WWII.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  3  
Fri 7 Jun, 2019 01:30 am
Lash the conservative is doing what she did in the last election. Pushing Bernie in hopes that his partisans will get passed because the democrats chose someone beside Bernie and will withhold their votes. Its how Lash got Trump elected in the last election. She is a republican plant.
Lash
 
  0  
Fri 7 Jun, 2019 04:52 am
@RABEL222,
You are the conservative who wants Republicans like Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton to push their conservative policies on the US. Waffling on abortion rights—saying Medicare for All will never happen. You want to protect the status quo that keeps healthcare unaffordable for average Americans. Why do you hate regular Americans?

#Bernie2020
livinglava
 
  -1  
Fri 7 Jun, 2019 06:58 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

You are the conservative who wants Republicans like Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton to push their conservative policies on the US. Waffling on abortion rights—saying Medicare for All will never happen. You want to protect the status quo that keeps healthcare unaffordable for average Americans. Why do you hate regular Americans?

If Medicare-for-All could work economically, it would be fine; but what you don't understand is that the US economy is set up to prevent affordable projects from benefiting everyone because the same people who want to create such projects are the ones who support raising wages and otherwise pumping up government expenditure to the max.

You can't simultaneously have a growth/investment economy like the US, which also takes care of everyone. Why? Because taking care of everyone would drive the growth through the roof and cause inflation.

Let's put it another way: Democrats are concerned about "the gap between rich and poor." Ok, let's say you try to close that gap by raising wages and creating more jobs. What happens as a result of that? Answer: consumer spending increases, health care spending increases, everyone buys new cars, infrastructure spending increases, land development increases, and the stock market grows, which floods banks the world over with money, which leads to investment throughout the world, and runaway growth overall.

Ok, so you like money and don't care about the environment or protecting land against development, so you are all for this level of growth. Well, guess what? Everyone else isn't. Rather, once they start making enough money to feel secure, they start worrying about protecting the planet and nature and, most of all, their little private backyards, nation-states, etc. So that's where you start getting all the business practices that drive up costs and prices and end up hurting all the people you were trying to help with all this growth.

Look at what happened in the wake of ACA: The Obama administration set up a system where poor people could get their health insurance subsidized, and as a result, poor people started utilizing health insurance (logical, right?) But the other side of that is overpriced pharmaceuticals and providers had no incentive to lower their prices instead of just billing the insurance at high prices. So basically you have a situation where you give poor people a platinum credit card and of course businesses are going to be happy to serve them, because they're making big money by doing so, but who is going to pay the bill, and what is going to happen to all that money as it circulates around the economy driving up prices and costs?

Now, what should have happened with ACA is that pharmaceuticals and providers should have accepted that they have to serve poor people and just provided the additional drugs and health care without billing the insurance companies more for it. That way, the insurance industry would have stayed pretty much unaffected and there would have been no changes in economic stability as a result of taking care of more people.

But are businesses ever going to do more work without wanting more money for it? No. And are these discount businesses that work for peanuts? No, they are the highest-billing businesses of any market that serves consumers directly. So without creating some discount health care and pharmaceutical business first, subsidizing healthcare for all, through medicare or otherwise is just going to be an economic pandoras box.

I think Democrats like the idea of creating an economic pandoras box because they figure it punishes everyone with money for making money in what they consider to be an unjust economy built on inequalities. They may be right, but the fact is that even among the poorest people, there are those that live frugally and save what little money they make, and there are those that spend irresponsibly and are always desperate for more money as a result. The kind of liberal socialist economy that Democrats want would punish the responsible, frugal/prudent people while rewarding those who spend liberally and irresponsibly, which in turn rewards those businesses that cater to irresponsible spending.

In short, Democrats economic model privileges those who party and cater to partying, while punishing those who work hard to live frugally, make prudent financial decisions, and gradually save up from what little they make.

Yes, of course it would be good to create health care and pharmaceutical support for those who need it but can't afford it; but to do that you first have to create a low-cost industry of health care and pharmaceutical providers. If you try to put the cart before the horse, you just end up making things worse.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Fri 7 Jun, 2019 12:52 pm
@Lash,
I only hate the ones who knowingly lie in order to push their misguided opinions. Like JC you post garbage opinion as fact. That is called lying by rational people.
Lash
 
  1  
Fri 7 Jun, 2019 01:21 pm
@RABEL222,
You wouldn’t know rational if it dropped a truckload of **** on your addledpated blockhead.
RABEL222
 
  0  
Fri 7 Jun, 2019 03:22 pm
@Lash,
As usual you post a blatant attack on a rational post that you can't reasonably rebut. The usual conservative attack.
Lash
 
  1  
Fri 7 Jun, 2019 06:47 pm
@RABEL222,
Just admit to being a Republican. Your friends are all Republicans; they won’t care.
0 Replies
 
 

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