The Case For Biden

@DrewDad,

But if they reject the good candidate and toss their vote on somebody with no chance of winning and thereby keeping the vote away from the "good but not perfect" candidate it gives them more reasons to cry, moan, groan and rage when the real enemy, the thing from the other side, is awarded the presidency (even if they had less actual people votes).

I mean who would possibly want a Hillary or Kamala or Pete or Joe or any other if their sacred idol Bernie isn't the nominee? For those, it would seem, Trump is the result of the rest of the nation not acquiescing to their desires.

If Bernie Sanders doesn't get the nomination, I'll go with the person the Dems select. It's maybe the only way to defeat Trump and get things back on track for the country.

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@maxdancona,

Dude, people voted for Hillary in the primaries.

You literally just said you want political parties to represent the will of the voters.

Stop whining; you sound like my kids when their favorite treat isn't in the fridge.

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@Sturgis,

Sturgis wrote:

But if they reject the good candidate and toss their vote on somebody with no chance of winning and thereby keeping the vote away from the "good but not perfect" candidate it gives them more reasons to cry, moan, groan and rage when the real enemy, the thing from the other side, is awarded the presidency (even if they had less actual people votes).

Bingo!

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@DrewDad,

The Democratic power brokers stacked the deck to make sure people voted for Hillary. It wasn't a fair process. I am not talking about Bernie, potential alternatives to Hillary were pushed out before the primary started with threats and funding.

How many dmeocratic candidates.do you think would have beaten Teump? Hillary couldn't do it.

In 2016 the nominating process wasn't fair. In 2020 if the Democrats stop playing ideological games, they can nominate someone who can win. Really nowz Trump is a brash idiot with low approval ratings.

It should not be that difficult.

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@Sturgis,

Sturgis wrote:

I mean who would possibly want a Hillary or Kamala or Pete or Joe or any other if their sacred idol Bernie isn't the nominee? For those, it would seem, Trump is the result of the rest of the nation not acquiescing to their desires

Exactamundo. Really twisted and juvenile.

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@DrewDad,

She was rammed down the country’s throat in the primary. The DNC cheated the primary and that is the only reason we’re stuck with Trump now.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

The Democrats used up that excuse in 2016. Now stop stacking the deck and give me a good candidate.

Or what you'll take your marbles and go home? Unless there are no closed primaries, more than likely, Bernie people will claim they were cheated again. The DNC is allowed to go pick the candidate they feel has the best chance of winning, they felt it was Hillary. As far as I am aware there is no clear favorite this time.

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@revelette1,

Hillary lost to Donald Trump, a reality star who can't keep his mouth shut and remained unpopular in the polls throughout the campaign. I find it a awfully hard to believe that there were many possible Democratic candidates who wouldn't have been able to been Trump rather easily.

The process of nominating Hillary wasn't fair (and I am not talking about Bernie). She was ordained before the primaries started and good candidates were warned off before they got started.

1 Reply

@revelette1,

1) The Democratic elites chose Hillary in 2016 because they wanted to push a narrow ideological narrative and thought that voters owed her their votes. Hillary was a gift to the their base. She wasn't a way to reach out to voters.

The DNC did not think Hillary was the most likely to win. If they thought that they were clearly wrong, but I don't think they are that stupid. Hillary was an ideological pick that they thought they could get away with.

2) The Democratic party has a responsibility to reach out to voters.

- If they decide to represent a broad coalition rather than using identity politics they deserve my vote and I will give it to them happily.

- If they have a fair primary based on ideas and policies rather than entitlement they will have my respect.

- If the primary is positive, based on a way forward rather than on resentment and attacks they will have my acceptance.

3) Yes, if the Democrats drive me away I will "take my ball and go home". My vote is worth something and it is mine. I don't want it taken for granted.

And one other thing.... insulting reluctant voters is not a very good strategy.

1 Reply

@Sturgis,

You’re so smart and correct.

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Throwing a tantrum at leftist voters is just as useless and counterproductive as ad hominems thrown at their candidates.

If the American left cannot coalesce around a platform and a candidate it can enthusiastically support, it will lose. Castigating vitriol on the left is the surest way to keep Trump in power.

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Stacey Abrams: “All identity politics means is saying ‘I see you.”

I really, really like this lady.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote:

1) The Democratic elites chose Hillary in 2016 because they wanted to push a narrow ideological narrative and thought that voters owed her their votes.

I think this depiction of events is a little skewed. People did vote for Clinton, she had a following, and not just among the "elites" (a GOP "let's divide the opposition" term) but from the base as well. No, I wasn't particularly thrilled with her but I knew that she had been working to shore up support for eight goddam years. I don't blame a politician for trying to secure the nomination years in advance. I think Sanders would have done better if he'd announced much earlier, registered in the Party, and done more preliminary work with the DNC. I don't know if he would have won but I think it would have avoided a lot of the rancor which still divides the Democrats.

I disagree that her candidacy was an attempt to push a "narrow ideological narrative" — one of the critiques of her campaign is that it seemed to lack any compelling ideological content. Hillary was one of those people like Zsa Zsa or Charro — she was famous for being famous. She believed that there was some historical momentum that would carry her to victory — and it nearly did.

Quote:

The DNC did not think Hillary was the most likely to win.

Yes it did. She ran well in the opinion polls.

Quote:

And one other thing.... insulting reluctant voters is not a very good strategy.

For who? If people on A2K actually thinks that they can make a statement like this and henceforth avoid being the target of criticism they're sadly mistaken. Seriously, is anyone so thin-skinned that getting insulted by an individual on an opinion board will actually cause them to change their vote or not vote at all? Seriously?

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@Olivier5,

Quote:

Obama warns Dems against 'circular firing squad'
Ellen Cranley, Apr 6th 2019 9:06PM

Former President Barack Obama issued a warning to Democratic lawmakers to avoid a "circular firing squad" within the party that would devoid policy progress, particularly ahead of the 2020 presidential election.

Speaking in Berlin during an Obama Foundation town hall, the former commander-in-chief said he worried about progressive lawmakers falling victim to "rigidity" within Washington.

"One of the things I do worry about sometimes among progressives in the United States, maybe it's true here as well, is a certain kind of rigidity where we say, 'Uh, I'm sorry, this is how it's going to be,' and then we start sometimes creating what's called a 'circular firing squad,' where you start shooting at your allies because one of them has strayed from purity on the issues," Obama said. "When that happens, typically the overall effort and movement weakens."

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2019/04/06/obama-warns-progressive-lawmakers-to-avoid-a-circular-firing-squad-ahead-of-the-2020-election/23707633/

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@revelette1,

Quote:

Unless there are no closed primaries, more than likely, Bernie people will claim they were cheated again.

This is an important point and it's disgraceful that the primary system is set up with open primaries in some states and closed primaries in others. They yield very different results and convey different information. They should be uniform across the country, one way or the other.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Quote:

If the American left cannot coalesce around a platform and a candidate it can enthusiastically support, it will lose. Castigating vitriol on the left is the surest way to keep Trump in power.

The "American Left" is the problem. In my opinion they are nasty, irrational, ideological and out of touch (and many voters agree). I want the American left to be kept in check... yes, I want the American Left to lose.

You seem to be saying that the "American Left" has zero responsibility and that the Democrats have zero responsibility to reach out to voters outside of this narrow ideological group.

Trump is a disaster; a shallow narcissist representing a backwards hateful ideology. So, what. Hating Trump isn't the same of supporting the Democrats. The saddest thing about the 2016 race is that they couldn't both lose.

But, if the Democrats come to voters and say "You have to vote for us no matter what candidate we choose" they don't deserve my vote. By voting for Democrats who ignore me as a voter I am making things worse, I am saying that no matter how extreme they get they can count on support. That is the opposite of democracy.

A big part of the problem is that the primary was unfair. The deck was stacked for Clinton (again I am not talking about Bernie). Maybe if they can fix that problem...

The fact that these attacks on Biden that might end his campaign are about smelling someone's hair is laughable.

1 Reply

@snood,

snood wrote:

Stacey Abrams: “All identity politics means is saying ‘I see you.”

I really, really like this lady.

Are you really going to defend identity politics?

This would make an interesting separate thread.

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@hightor,

What do you think of Warren's idea of a doing away with the filibuster if democrats take control in the senate? I wonder why Warren is using that issue in her campaign? She does make a good point however, if the filibuster does not change, all these ideas of which the democrats have, will come to nothing.

Nobody runs on Senate procedure, but without changing it, nothing is going to happen

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

I want the American Left to lose.

Well, your wish will probably be granted. Trump will be re-elected and the US democracy will take another dive towards fascism.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
I want the American Left to lose.

Well, your wish will probably be granted. Trump will be re-elected and the US democracy will take another dive towards fascism.

Which is why I want the Democratic party to reach out to voters outside of the "American Left". The Democratic party has the responsibility to reach out to a broad range of voters. If they fail to do this, they deserve to lose.

The "American Left" is the problem. The American voter is not. The idea that the American voter should be beholden to the American Left is ridiculous.

The Democrats had better figure this out. Blaming voters for not supporting them is a step in the wrong direction.

2 Replies

The Case For Biden

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