33
   

The Case For Biden

 
 
snood
 
  4  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 04:07 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

But do you think he is up to it? His pictures shows him to look pretty tired and grieving since his son died. I wouldn't blame him if he turns it down.

I don't know - and I agree that he looks weary, but it's been less than 4 months since he lost his son. I'll tell you one thing I do believe though. I believe if Joe Biden decides to get into the race I'll feel more sure about his motives for doing so than I have ever felt about anyone. I think more than any petty feeding of his ego or quest for glory he will believe he is the best person to fill that office.
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 04:11 pm
@snood,
I think even discussing the possibility of Biden making a run has all sorts of implications - like maybe Hillary is starting to slip.
snood
 
  4  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 04:12 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

"Net negative" is a tempered way of stating that Sanders presence on the Dem ticket would be a political suicide move.

If the zealots here are not able to get the fact that the country is not even close to being ready for someone like Sanders or Warren...I can only hope there are clearer heads working out in the grassroots sector of progressive America.




I think the non-electability quotient is less for Warren than for Sanders. Both have very left of center views, but Sanders has the (unfortunate as it is that this exists) extra hesitation factor of being Jewish and a self-described Socialist. (Not that there's anything wrong with those things. I'm just sayin'...)
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 04:48 pm
@snood,
I'll agree that the "non-electability" factor IS less for Warren than Sanders...and I'll throw in the "woman" factor as a positive for her that Sanders does not have.

I also acknowledge that I'm not really sure either is as far left as portrayed...but as I've noted a couple of times, the perception is often more telling to the general public than the reality.

I want our country further left...much further left. We might be able to start that drift now...especially with a Dem in office to fill those court vacancies that will come. (That is where the initial move leftward will come...at the SCOTUS level.)

It would be a shame to spoil everything by being precipitous. The thought of a day where someone like Sanders could be on the ticket is a pleasant day dream...but for 2016...we need pragmatism more than dreams.

I've been reading an enjoying your comments, Snood. Thanks for being open minded about the contention in the Sanders give and take.
RABEL222
 
  3  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 07:13 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
So the Sanders click would like to think. We have 15 months yet so let us see what happens.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2015 06:52 am
http://assets.amuniversal.com/29bef3401c480133fa75005056a9545d.jpg
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2015 09:46 am
Friends of Joe Biden Worry a Run for President Could Bruise His Legacy

I agree with this part of the article:

Quote:
Senator Richard J. Durbin, Democrat of Illinois, said Mr. Biden appreciated “better than any candidate in the race” the rough-and-tumble nature of presidential campaigns. “He’s been through this before; he understands what is involved.”

But Mr. Durbin contended that legacy should not be part of Mr. Biden’s consideration because “the reputation he enjoys in this country is solid, whatever his final decision.”

0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2015 09:07 am
Whether or not Biden runs, Clinton has a problem

0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2015 09:23 am
@snood,
snood wrote:

I think the non-electability quotient is less for Warren than for Sanders. Both have very left of center views, but Sanders has the (unfortunate as it is that this exists) extra hesitation factor of being Jewish and a self-described Socialist. (Not that there's anything wrong with those things. I'm just sayin'...)


In my opinion, I believe that in different cities, including other nations, citizens have had little hesitation to elect a Jewish "mayor." The reason being that the problems that mayors get involved with are local, and can get solved with good planning, financial or otherwise. However, the scope of problems that heads of state deal with are just too diverse to make many people comfortable with someone that has a background that is seen as fairly different from the majority of citizens. Meaning, the stereotype for Jews, by many people, is that they tend to "hear a different drummer," or at least show an independent thought process that still does not necessarily dovetail with the thinking of the masses. This should not be offensive to Jews, since it was the reason they didn't become pagans two-millenium before Christianity. It might just show non-Jews that they are more fractured/divided than they might think. Remember, President Obama still was a member of the majority faith in the U.S.

The hesitancy then does not come, in my opinion, from Bernie being Jewish, but for the belief that Jews are independent thinkers; religion being the most obvious.
revelette2
 
  3  
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2015 09:37 am
@Foofie,
Despite your weird views which only represent yourself, I think the only hesitation some might make of voting for a person of a Jewish background would be the Palestine/Israel conflict. That person would not have done his/her homework as Bernie Sanders has been pretty even handed on the middle east conflict. More so than Hillary or possibly Joe Biden.
Foofie
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2015 09:59 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

Despite your weird views which only represent yourself, I think the only hesitation some might make of voting for a person of a Jewish background would be the Palestine/Israel conflict. That person would not have done his/her homework as Bernie Sanders has been pretty even handed on the middle east conflict. More so than Hillary or possibly Joe Biden.


In my opinion, a percentage of the voting public would subscribe to your thinking; however, there are people that would not be considered "anti-Semites," but do look upon Jews as just a little bit different, in that they have a reputation for certain qualities that are shared with other people, but Jews have the stereotype. My views are not "weird," but nuanced, based on more decades of being a male in a non philo-Semitic culture. In my opinion, decent people often try to treat Jewish women with a kid glove, so to speak, so you might not be aware of the degree of alienation from Jews by a large segment of the population.
revelette2
 
  3  
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2015 10:48 am
@Foofie,
You are correct that I am not aware of the way Jews are treated, where I live, I don't know any Jews, if they are Jews, they have never been pointed out to me.

I have noticed you play up the sterotype of Jews yourself in making your race (not sure how to word it) seem to all be alike rather than made up different types of people. It is like saying all black males are good basketball players when you make out like all Jewish people are good at making and managing money and are smarter than the average gentile. I am sure there are some Jews like that, but I am sure that are some who are not like that just like in all other races or groups of people in different countries. In other words, Jews are human just like the rest of us; no better or worse.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2015 06:12 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:
In other words, Jews are human just like the rest of us; no better or worse.


If you had said Jews are human like the rest of us; most are humaine, some are not. It would have been more accurate.
roger
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2015 06:17 pm
@RABEL222,
I think she said what she meant to say.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2015 03:20 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

The hesitancy then does not come... from Bernie being Jewish, but for the belief that Jews are independent thinkers; religion being the most obvious.


First of all, Mr. Sanders is an ethnic Jew. To him, as reflected by his personal life ( his wife is Catholic) the religion of Judaism has zero significance.

Orthodox Jews ( ethnic or not) do not marry Catholic women ( if the women do not first convert to Judaism). The same may be said for Jewish males who are Conservative or Reform. They may marry non-Jewish women, who first convert to the religion of Judaism.

Since Mr. Sanders is nonreligious, I suspect that should he be rejected by American voters, because he is Jewish, it will be because he is a secular Jew and some Americans hold fast to various negative Jewish stereotypes, that in reality have nothing to do with the religion of Judaism.
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2015 03:38 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:


The thought of a day where someone like Sanders could be on the ticket is a pleasant day dream...


I agree with your comment. Likewise, Biden won't be on the ticket either, primarily because of his age on the one hand, and secondly because his heart really isn't in running ( too much sorrow in his life).
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2015 12:16 pm
@Miller,
Miller wrote:


Since Mr. Sanders is nonreligious, I suspect that should he be rejected by American voters, because he is Jewish, it will be because he is a secular Jew and some Americans hold fast to various negative Jewish stereotypes, that in reality have nothing to do with the religion of Judaism.


O.K. Let's not get bogged down in definitions. In my opinion, many Americans have reservations regarding people of Jewish descent, not because of the religion, but because of the belief that those of Jewish descent have cultural/ethnic traits from which they are alienated. So, the moniker of Jewish, religious or secular, may just be a polite way to say, in the old neighborhood vernacular, "I don't like his face."
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2015 12:26 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:



I have noticed you play up the sterotype of Jews yourself in making your race (not sure how to word it) seem to all be alike rather than made up different types of people. It is like saying all black males are good basketball players when you make out like all Jewish people are good at making and managing money and are smarter than the average gentile. I am sure there are some Jews like that, but I am sure that are some who are not like that just like in all other races or groups of people in different countries. In other words, Jews are human just like the rest of us; no better or worse.


Do you live in a purely Gentile neck-of-the-woods? Jews are not a race. The stereotype of being intelligent, and good at managing money are just the popular notions. If one lives in an eastern urban area, one might have the stereotype that they have a propensity to be doctors, dentists, teachers/professors, lawyers, or business people. I guess in your neck-of-the-woods those stereotypes have not permeated the population?

Yes, Jews are humans like the rest of the world. However, their odd history, surviving in spite of a few thousand years of being pariahs seems to have resulted in some nuanced differences. The greatest, in my opinion, is that they have a good level of self-esteem, regardless of how few people can be a sincere friend.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2015 08:03 pm
This is in Politico - today!

With his blessing, confidants to Vice President Joe Biden have begun strategizing about travel to early primary states and identified potential donors who could bankroll a campaign even as he remains undecided about whether to pull the trigger on a late-entry 2016 run for president.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/biden-strategy-for-white-house-run-taking-shape-121377.html#ixzz3iqSAwYBE

I really hope Joe gets in. In my opinion, he's a good sense alternative to the wooden scripted and calculating Clinton and the pie-in-the-sky good guy Sanders.
roger
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Aug, 2015 08:49 pm
@snood,
Ya got me worried, Snood. I'm fairly sure he's the best candidate, too. But, he better start getting busy.
 

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