24
   

The Trolls Don't Deserve to Be Read and Replied To

 
 
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Mon 6 Jul, 2015 05:34 pm
@farmerman,
The real big problem is who decides who is a Troll and who is not.

I think (but I am not sure) that Frank is one of the people Edgar is referring to as a Troll. Edgar will have to confirm or deny this... but I like reading Frank's posts. I often disagree with him, but he has an interesting perspective. There are many people who are happy interacting with Frank.

Many people on Able2Know think Setanta is a troll, yet Setanta is part of a sinificant group on Able2know who support him.

I don't see anyone on Able2know that I can't either live with or ignore. There are a couple of people, for example Gungasnake, that I rarely choose to engage with. But I have no animosity toward Gungasnake, it is just that normally we are so far apart that there is little possibility of a meaningful discussion.

This call to "the group" to ostracize other members seems wrong to me. And since Able2know is a public forum, every member will find support from someone... it won't even work.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Jul, 2015 05:58 pm
What the hell does sinificant mean?

The classic definition of a troll is someone who wants to make themselves the topic of discussion, regardless of what the topic may have originally been. Trolols commonly attempt to disrupt a thread in order to impose what they want to discuss on the thread.
Frank Apisa
 
  4  
Reply Mon 6 Jul, 2015 05:59 pm
@maxdancona,
Deciding who is and who is not a troll...is indeed a big problem, Max.

I was writing an agreement to the earlier post which you apparently withdrew...but I agree with this one every bit as much.

Not sure why Edgar feels the way he does about disagreement...but he does...not just with me, but with many. I certainly try to keep my disagreements with him reasonable and courteous.

His need to call me a troll does rile me...I'll give him that.

Like you, I have no problem interacting with just about anyone here in the forum...and the call to ostracize individuals is the very last thing this forum needs right now. We have very few regular members...and this clique mentality to shun people (especially when encouraged) hurts the entire community needlessly.

Frank Apisa
 
  4  
Reply Mon 6 Jul, 2015 06:04 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Along with the problem of deciding who is and who is not a troll, Max...is the problem of "defining" what a troll is...

...and deciding who is and who is not trying to make themselves the topic of discussion in a thread rather than actually offering opinions on the subject of a particular thread.





0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  4  
Reply Mon 6 Jul, 2015 06:11 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta, I will be specific. By significant group I am referring to a clique that is large enough and active enough to influence the tone and social dynamics in this forum (although many of us push back).

You, Izzy, Edgar, EhBeth and others are part of thelargest clique on Able2know. You all think mostly the same way. You defend each other. You often gang up on people who you disagree with.

Evidently those of us who push back against this clique are labeled as trolls.

glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Jul, 2015 06:14 pm
@edgarblythe,
Just the other day I noticed so many old posters on Merry Andrew's thread. I think Andy is a man most everyone cares about. I know I have enjoyed him, and I can't remember seeing him over-reacting to minor irritants. However, I assumed many posters had left due to poor health or lack of interest.....apparently that's not really the case. People leave because this forum can become toxic over even minor disagreements. Sometimes it's not even a disagreement, sometimes it's as simple as one poster not liking another.

A number of posters remind us from time to time to not feed the trolls. So I agree with Edgar. I have been ruminating today over how to word a request like Edgar's in a way that wouldn't invite scorn and misplaced ridicule. I didn't find Edgar's request insulting, I also don't know why so many folks assumed he was talking about them personally.

If we are honest with ourselves, we can all think of times when we posted something because we get angry. I just think it's a shame so many interesting folks have given up. NewYorkAbuzz collapsed under its own messy weight. SB became so twisted that by the time I left there were only 4 people active. That forum is no more.

It might be time to remind ourselves that we are enjoying or not enjoying a vehicle that someone built so we can chat, discuss, joke or bitch about things. It doesn't cost us a thing, people volunteer their personal time to serve as moderators, to prevent hackers from taking over, plus there is no advertising to deal with. We don't display a great deal of gratitude, and we also get annoyed that people can choose to ignore us. Apparently we get confused if we are experiencing hospitality or can demand hospitality.

Edgar, you did a brave thing by placing this request on the forum. Unfortunately too many of the previous remarks are inordinately defensive.
I can't speak for Edgar, but I don't think we have to like everybody here but that doesn't mean we can let our dogs poop all over other people's yards. To many members are MIA, I wish they would reconsider and come back.

That's just something I would like to see, you don't have to agree with me.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Mon 6 Jul, 2015 06:15 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
Trolols commonly attempt to disrupt a thread in order to impose what they want to discuss on the thread.


This is a public forum... I don't think you understand this. People start threads, but at the moment they push the button they lose control of it. Anyone can respond anyway they want (subject only to how the moderators enforce the TOS).

No one "disrupts" a thread by posting their responses. People have the right to respond to a thread however they choose and you can choose to ignore them.

And no one imposes anything (although you seem to be trying). Each person posts whatever they feel is appropriate. No one can impose on you to force you to respond. But you can impose on anyone to keep them from posting.

This idea that you should be able to restrict how people respond is hogwash. The idea that someone responding as they choose is somehow imposing on you is ridiculous.

edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Jul, 2015 06:20 pm
@maxdancona,
People always justify and enable trolls by saying, This is a public forum, as if being a total jerk is not just acceptable, but expected. A2k has buttons designed to self police it, but people are reluctant to use them. We don't have to put up with twenty thousand posts on a thread, running counter to the wishes of reasonable minds. But it happens anyway.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Jul, 2015 06:29 pm
And I disagree strenuously with the contention that setanta, farmerman and certain others and I all think alike. It's just that we have a knack for spotting bullshit.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Jul, 2015 06:30 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
The real big problem is who decides who is a Troll and who is not
I dont have to be a French chef to know Ive got a really bad meal.
When mst participants agree that someone is being an attention whore, troll, or someone who just loves to interrupt with irrational assertions or "fake facts", something needs to be done.

The A2K "ignore" feature was supposed to be uparmored a few years ago, but it wasnt, so, rather than making a fake argument about the troll's genome, we just follow what ed suggests.
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Jul, 2015 06:30 pm
Sometimes I try to be droll.
It just doesn't work out . . . . Embarrassed
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Jul, 2015 06:39 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Sometimes I try to be droll.
It just doesn't work out . . . . Embarrassed

We just have to pat you on the head, sometimes, and bear with it.
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Jul, 2015 06:41 pm
@neologist,
I think you can be droll. Smile
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Jul, 2015 06:41 pm
@edgarblythe,
Bless you, edgar
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Jul, 2015 06:42 pm
@glitterbag,
You too, GB
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  3  
Reply Mon 6 Jul, 2015 06:46 pm
To most people at A2K troll is defined as " anyone who irritates me".

Now maybe you only want to communicate with people who calm your nerves, but that is going to make you dumb in most cases.

your life though. Me, I aim for better.
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Jul, 2015 07:00 pm
As far as I know, there is no determining exactly who the trolls are, I think it's different for each poster. Some folks just can't stand a few, and if it helps them from completely leaving and taking there business elsewhere, by all means the ignore button helps. Most of the posters on my ignore list were only here about a month or two and then they get bored and go elsewhere.

I guess what I'm trying to say is no one is telling you what you can say, but you can't force every single member read your opinion. The thumbs up/down feature bugs a lot of folks. Since there is no financial gain to acquiring a certain amount of thumbs up nor penalty for thumbs down I seldom notice them. It is kind of silly that some truly innocent threads get a ton of thumbs down.
0 Replies
 
Vernon of Prague
 
  3  
Reply Mon 6 Jul, 2015 07:02 pm
hahaha, you dudes are funny.

This forum is the least trolled forum I have ever seen. It's simply because annoying you, older ladies and gentlemen is so easy nobody sees a challenge in it Razz

No seriously, definition of troll is simple and everybody with common sense recognizes one when he sees him. Be careful about toxicity though. I understand that many people ask question but don't seek for answers. They just want to hear what they like, regardless of logic or reason. One might quickly get tired of such issues and become resentful, sarcastic and so one. Instead of hunting for trolls, understand that it is you who creates environment here and do your best to make it as nice as possible! Never show any resentment, never irritate others. If you don't agree, express it with logic. If there's somebody you don't like, keep it for yourself. Simple as it sounds.

phew... oldies... Drunk


PS: And implant some humour, for holy's hamster sake!!!
glitterbag
 
  4  
Reply Mon 6 Jul, 2015 07:09 pm
@Vernon of Prague,
Hey Seniors, can anybody explain what Vernon is going on about. My eyes are too wrinkled to see.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Mon 6 Jul, 2015 07:09 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
When mst participants agree that someone is being an attention whore, troll, or someone who just loves to interrupt with irrational assertions or "fake facts", something needs to be done.


We could have a voting system... where anyone who loses the vote would be silenced. Is this what you are suggesting by "uparmoring" the ignore feature?

I hate this idea.

Group think on Able2Know is far more annoying than "trolling". I don't like the idea of a group of "most participants" agreeing on who or which ideas should be hidden.

I prefer a open discussion forum where everyone is free to express their ideas as we see fit.
 

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