36
   

Charleston Church Massacre: Thug, Terrorism, Disturbed Loner?

 
 
wmwcjr
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 11:45 am
@CoastalRat,
CoastalRat wrote:
2. At the time of many of the comments being made by officials, it was not clear what may have motivated the killings. Gov. Haley may not have been aware of anything the man said during the killings when she made her statement quoted earlier in this thread. Calling her names for what she said is childish and reprehensible. I have little regard any longer for the individual who posted what he did in some vain attempt to turn this into a political statement. (Had Haley been a democrat, I seriously doubt this comment would have been made. I admit I could be mistaken, but that is my belief.)


Although the killer's motivation was a matter of public knowledge, perhaps I should have waited for the Governor to make a clarification as to her own reaction. I reacted emotionally out of grief. (Frankly, I was reminded of the bombing of the black church in Birmington, Alabama, in 1963.) On the other hand, there are those who even today are saying that the killer really wasn't motivated by racial hatred, but was only play-acting. If the races of the killer and victims were reversed, would those who are now denying that racial hatred was the motivating cause be saying the same thing in that hypothetical situation?

For your information, CoastalRat, I was not trying "to turn this into a political statement." There is no political party I support. I've become a nonvoter. Actually, with the exception of an occasion or two, I've been a nonvoter for decades. (The last time I voted in a presidential election was in 2008 for McCain/Palin, and in 1994 I voted for Dole/Kemp. These are the two occasions I just referenced. I've even been a Dole fan. I admire the man. I hope that will make you happy.) I would have to violate my conscience to vote for either party today. You think I'm a Democrat? Well, I happen to be pro-life; and I'm opposed to same-sex marriage, which I consider to be a form of social insanity. Decades ago I did support liberal Democrats (and liberal Republicans, although there were none in my state). Growing up in a Jim Crow state certainly had a lot to do with it. The leading conservatives of the day defended racial discrimination against blacks and repeatedly condemned the civil rights movement. Two years ago the conservative Republican majority of eviscerated the Voting Rights Act. (I wonder if any of them would have had a problem with Plessy vs Ferguson.) But on the other hand, the liberal Justices all push same-sex marriage. So, that leaves me absolutely nowhere to go politically.

I would suggest to you the next time you're so offended by a poster's comment that you contact the individual directly by post or, much more preferably, by PM instead of making a snide comment as if I'm not around to hear it. You're not impressed by me? Well, I'm not impressed with you. You attack me for making a snap judgment, yet you do the same to me.

Your objection is noted and disregarded.
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 11:51 am
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:

It is still based on hate - hate for what America stands for. Hating a particular group.

At least the Crime Museum considers these hate crimes.
A hate crime is another crime (like murder or arson) but with the added element of “bias.”

In which religious bias is the third highest hate crime.

http://www.crimemuseum.org/terrorism-and-hate-crimes-exhibit

Their motivation was their notion that the US was discriminating against Muslims and the wars that the US had waged against Afghanistan and Iraq. They weren't targeting Americans for being Americans.

The religious factor in their motivation wasn't that they hated Muslims, it's that they felt that they were avenging Muslims.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 12:04 pm
It's not just the flag that people ought to object to. Black people in that state are forced to drive down streets named after Confederate officers and such, the very ones that fought to keep them enslaved. I know there are white citizens of that state who do not fit the profile of racists, but it seems pretty callous to me, to force this on the black population all their lives.
CoastalRat
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 12:13 pm
@wmwcjr,
I will gladly and humbly apologize for making the assumption that your comment and post were politically motivated. As I stated in the post, I may be wrong about the intent (but doubted at the time that I was.) Evidently I was wrong and I am big enough to apologize for that. I have seen and read too many reports of people trying to politicize what is a difficult situation. I assumed you were doing so also. And for that I am sorry.





CoastalRat
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 12:26 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Black people in that state are forced to drive down streets named after Confederate officers and such, the very ones that fought to keep them enslaved.
I wonder how many of the citizens of any city could even tell you who the street was named for? White or black citizen, I seriously doubt even half the population could tell you who Calhoun St. in Charleston was named for. Or how about Marion Square? Do you really think that blacks here in Charleston or other cities of the south really give a rat's ass what the street names are? You have way too much time on your hands to have come up with that one edgar.

Quote:
I know there are white citizens of that state who do not fit the profile of racists,
Thank you for giving a handful of us the benefit of doubt. How generous of you. And I am sure there are white citizens where you live that do not fit the profile of racists either.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 12:35 pm
@CoastalRat,
We have more than our share of racists here also.
CoastalRat
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 12:55 pm
@edgarblythe,
Wish that it were different everywhere edgar and that people would realize that we are all just people. But until we stop using color to describe something, we just keep making it harder on ourselves.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 01:31 pm
@CoastalRat,
Tell it to the racists. I only respond when something sick happens.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 03:22 pm
@CoastalRat,
CoastalRat wrote:

Wish that it were different everywhere edgar and that people would realize that we are all just people. But until we stop using color to describe something, we just keep making it harder on ourselves.

Oh, you mean like 90% of the journalism accounts which focus on race, often barley even mentioning any other aspect of the story? This demented young man knew what would get our attention, exactly like the one in Colorado who shot up a movie theater did.

And most everyone in this country is so obsessed with race that this is all that they will see, this is all that will penetrate their brains. You suckers have been played.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 03:30 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

It's not just the flag that people ought to object to. Black people in that state are forced to drive down streets named after Confederate officers and such, the very ones that fought to keep them enslaved.


You do realize that at the start of the war 13% of the blacks in the USA were slaves, that the rest were not.....right?

Not likely, as your brain space seems to be sifted and organized by your politics, leaving you with only the slimmest grasp of the facts.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 03:37 pm
Osama's whole game was to get the USA to over react to threats and do something stupid. Some people have noticed how well that worked, and are going to ape the tactics to advance what ever their political or personal cause is. In all likelihood this guy was hurting, blamed the collective , and wanted to hurt back. THAT was the intent, not this racism stuff, that was only done because he knew enough to know which eye to poke.

My fellow americans are for the most part appallingly stupid, often without the necessary brain wattage to think for themselves. They thus eat up what ever claptrap the elite feed them through the media.


I am ashamed.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 04:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
For those who dont get it, the current message is "YOU ALL HAVE TO LOVE EACH OTHER, AND THAT'S AN ORDER!"

I say "**** YOU!". I am a free man, I will do my own thinking and deciding thank you very much....you run your lives and I will run mine. The collective has NO right to mandate what my brain does. It is only upon transgressive act that the collective gains the right to judge me, to hold me to account. Thoughts are not acts, the collective can go **** themselves with their demands to control my brain on the very thin rationalization of "SAFETY!"
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 04:38 pm
@hawkeye10,
Just don't go around killing minorities because your right to hate them doesn't give you the right to kill them.

M'kay?
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 05:08 pm
@Lash,
To answer Lash's question, I think this episode has everything in one package: racism, plain old ordinary hate, thug behavior big time, the mental aberrance of a disturbed loner, a really horrible haircut. That's not meant to be funny, as I'll figure he is apt to be quite narcissistic about his self presentation and that may be part and parcel of the whole thing.

This bundle of phlegm killed many in cold, very cold, blood - (white) terrorism, while I'm adding labels.
Just my opinion, as they say.


I'm interested it the fact that some of the victims' families are saying they forgive, and why - so as not to prolong hate, rather to cut hate off.


Today I read a useful article, to me, about the Chapel Hill killings.
I recommend it if you can stand reading more of this kind of stuff.
Tough as it is to read, there seems to be some good that came out of how the victims loved ones dealt with that similar ------ but different ----- situation.

The Story of a Hate Crime
What led to the murder of three Muslim students in Chapel Hill?
By Margaret Talbot
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/06/22/the-story-of-a-hate-crime
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 05:15 pm
https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10014900_1714571335453924_3748372953969536748_n.jpg?oh=cf1cc62268a53d81619b6c544a0720a0&oe=562CB28C
wmwcjr
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 05:46 pm
I have since revised my opinion of Gov. Haley. Just minutes ago my wife informed me that according to a news report she heard on the radio, the governor was grief-stricken to the point of crying when she responded to the media. This I did not know. I know from my own personal experience that grief-stricken individuals often don’t know what to say or simply are not thinking. For example, in 1980 Paul McCartney’s reaction to the shooting death of John Lennon was to say, “What a bummer.” McCartney was therefore falsely accused of being callous. So, I will admit I was wrong. I apologize.

Of course, I’m also sorry to deprive CoastalRat of a boogeyman; namely, myself. He'll have to find someone else to bash. Rolling Eyes

Here’s the latest news on this tragedy (for lack of a better word):

Quote:

Officials: Suspect in church slayings unrepentant amid outcry over racial hatred

By Jeremy Borden, Sari Horwitz and Jerry Markon June 19 at 3:06 PM


CHARLESTON, S.C. — The gunman charged with killing nine people in an African American church was unrepentant during a confession to police, even after almost backing out of what he called his “mission” because church members were so nice to him, according to law enforcement officials and others briefed on the investigation.

Dylann Roof not only confessed to causing the Wednesday night carnage in Charleston, but said he wanted his actions known, said the law enforcement officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is unfolding. They said Roof espoused strong anti-black views when questioned by officers.

But the 21-year-old also told police he had briefly reconsidered his plan during the time he spent quietly watching a Bible study group before opening fire, two people briefed on the investigation said. Roof “said he “almost didn’t go through with it because they were so nice to him” one of the people said, before concluding: “I had to complete my mission.”

As he methodically fired and reloaded several times, the person said, Roof called out: “You all are taking over our country. Y’all want something to pray about? I’ll give you something to pray about.”

Roof’s words added to an emerging portrait that suggests the 21-year-old was driven by runaway racial hatred in the attacks — unleashed after Roof spent nearly an hour watching the group before opening fire, authorities said.

Left dead were the church’s prominent pastor and eight other worshippers.

Authorities on Friday announced that Roof has been charged with nine counts of murder and possession of a weapon during the commission of a violent crime. He then appeared in court for an extraordinary bond hearing in which relatives of the dead, given the chance to confront him, instead offered him forgiveness and said they were praying for him.

Judge James B. Gosnell Jr. ordered Roof held without bond on the murder charges but set a $1 million bond on the firearm charge. It was unclear if prosecutors would seek the death penalty and if Roof had an attorney.

Meanwhile, a federal civil rights investigation into the attacks was underway, which authorities said will be conducted along with the state probe. Federal officials have described it as a hate crime investigation.

South Carolina’s governor urged her state’s prosecutors to seek the death penalty for the shootings inside Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church, the South’s oldest African American church. “We will absolutely will want him to have the death penalty,” Gov. Nikki Haley told NBC’s “Today” show.

Outpourings of sorrow and expressions of anger and disbelief have spilled from Charleston and across the country. In Charleston, a major prayer vigil was scheduled for later Friday as the city’s mayor, Joseph P. Riley Jr., called the slayings an act of “pure, pure concentrated evil.”

In Washington, a solemn President Obama voiced “sadness and anger” on Thursday and wondered what it would take to push lawmakers to tighten the nation’s gun laws. On a visit Friday to a U.S. military base in northern Italy, first lady Michelle Obama said she prays “for a community that I know is in pain.”

About the same time in front of the AME church in Charleston, three nuns in blue habits read a Bible passage amid a sidewalk piled high with flowers, wreaths and balloons.

That message of peace contrasted with what friends and law enforcement officials said was the profile of Roof coming to light piece by piece. It suggested a downward trajectory of racial suspicions, misguided rage and unsettling plots — which were expressed to others, but apparently never passed to authorities as warnings.

A one-time acquaintance of Roof’s recalled that the suspect would rant that “blacks were taking over the world” as the pair got drunk on vodka.

Roof railed that “someone needed to do something about it for the white race,” said the former friend, Joseph Meek Jr., the Associated Press reported.

Roof’s former roommate, Dalton Tyler, told ABC News that Roof seemed to have been plotting some kind of violence “for six months.”

“He said he wanted to start a civil war,” Tyler said. “He said he was going to do something like that and then kill himself.”

After a nearly 15-hour manhunt that ended when Roof’s car was spotted in North Carolina, the case now turns to questions that include how he obtained the weapon and why no one alerted authorities as Roof apparently sharpened his racial diatribes and threats.

A Snapchat video taken shortly before the shooting and obtained by Mashable.com appears to show a white man sitting with the black parishioners around a table in a church meeting room at Emanuel AME, one of the oldest black churches in the nation.

The man was offered a chance to join the discussion on the Scriptures, but declined. Shortly after, he opened fire.

Witnesses told authorities they never saw the man pull out the gun. Instead, they saw him start shooting, up close, targeting each victim with precision. The man took the time to reload the handgun “several times,” officials said.

Afterward, eight people lay dead and a ninth lay dying. Among the victims was the Rev. Clementa Pinckney, 41, Emanuel AME’s charismatic pastor, who also served in the South Carolina Senate and once sponsored a resolution praising a high school senior for an award-winning speech in favor of tighter gun laws.

Authorities identified the other victims as the Rev. Sharonda Coleman-Singleton, 45, who is the mother of a Charleston Southern University student; Cynthia Hurd, 47, the manager of the St. Andrews Regional Library in Charleston; Susie Jackson, 87; Ethel Lance, 70; DePayne Middleton; Tywanza Sanders, 26; and Myra Thompson, 59. Daniel Simmons, 74, died at the hospital.

Roof allegedly spared one woman, one law enforcement official said, so she could tell others what had happened.

When Roof was arrested — about 250 miles from Charleston — he had a Glock .45-caliber semiautomatic handgun that law enforcement officials said he had obtained in April, either receiving it as a birthday gift or buying it himself with birthday money. The gun was purchased legally, officials said.

A troubled loner who dropped out of school in ninth grade and had a history of small-time arrests, Roof maintained a Facebook page that seems to reflect his worldview. The profile picture shows him scowling in a wooded swamp, wearing a jacket with at least two conspicuous patches: the flags of apartheid-era South Africa and the former white-ruled Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe).

Charleston Police Chief Gregory Mullen said Roof “was cooperative with the officer who stopped him” near Shelby, N.C. He waived extradition to South Carolina and was flown back to Charleston late Thursday.

It was unclear why Roof fled to Shelby. His home in Eastover is near Columbia, South Carolina’s state capital, about 130 miles to the south, but his sister’s fiance, Michael Tyo, lives in Shelby.

The shooting was the deadliest attack on a place of worship in the United States since 1991, when nine people were killed at the Wat Promkunaram temple near Phoenix. Johnathan Doody, tried three times for the execution-style murders at the Buddhist temple, was sentenced in 2014 to 249 years in prison.

For some, the shooting evoked memories of the 1963 Birmingham bombing, in which Ku Klux Klan member planted dynamite on the steps of the 16th Street Baptist Church, killing four African American girls.

“For such a heinous act to be perpetrated in a house of God more than a half a century after the 16th Street tragedy is a reminder to us all that we must be ever vigilant and work as one community to call out and eliminate racial hatred,” said Doug Jones, the former U.S. attorney who prosecuted some of the Klan members.

Pictures from the South Carolina State House showed a black cloth draped at the desk where Pinckney sat in the Senate. The Confederate flag continued to wave outside.

Vice President Biden, who had seen Pinckney last year at a prayer breakfast in Columbia, S.C., called the shooting an “act of pure evil and hatred.”

“Hate has once again been let loose in an American community,” Biden and his wife, Jill, said in a statement. “And the senseless actions of a coward have once again cut short so many lives with so much promise.”

Horwitz and Markon reported from Washington. Jeremy Borden in Columbia, SC; Anne Gearan in Charleston; Ken Otterbourg in Shelby and Brian Murphy, J. Freedom du Lac, Mark Berman, Lindsey Bever, Sarah Larimer, Elahe Izadi, Jose A. DelReal, Thad Moore, Ishaan Tharoor, Sarah Pulliam Bailey and Julie Tate in Washington contributed to this report.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/south-carolina-governor-urges-death-penalty-charges-in-church-slayings/2015/06/19/3c039722-1678-11e5-9ddc-e3353542100c_story.html


Hawkeye10 has claimed that the killer was not driven by racial hatred. Well, it looks like he’s wrong. As for CoastalRat, I suspect he has a political motivation of his own.
0 Replies
 
wmwcjr
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 06:18 pm
@edgarblythe,
Ed, thanks for giving the victims faces. The killer doesn't deserve his ill-gotten fame. I love the soulless expression on his face. Evil or Very Mad I believe Hitler was the same at his age.

If I look at these pictures much longer, I'll start crying. Crying or Very sad Man's inhumanity to man. . . . Evil or Very Mad
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 06:51 pm
@wmwcjr,
Each one of those faces looks like the faces of some good people. They speak for themselves, with no input from me.
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 07:34 pm
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/61720150344125.jpg
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 07:44 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Each one of those faces looks like the faces of some good people. They speak for themselves, with no input from me.

Yet here u r, inputting.
 

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