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Charleston Church Massacre: Thug, Terrorism, Disturbed Loner?

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2015 11:38 pm
@Ionus,
Don't ask me about the legal naming of 'flags' in South Carolina. It was approved by the state's Attorney General last year.

Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2015 11:40 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:
It's not hate, just showing the inconsistency of religious claims.
Well duh ! Welcome to people . You should see some of the inconsistency claims about science, especially for atheists, GW enthusiasts and last but not least, scientists .
Quote:
There is no end of religious people spouting out their nonsense and putting forth their discrimination.
Very bad form to do it in a thread on a massacre of religious people, old chap !
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2015 11:43 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Yep . And so it keeps happening . People want to go tut-tut and feel good about themselves . They dont want to do anything, especially understand the problem.
I have for years made the same point about sexual transgressions, all we know is to hammer those who abuse, we have no interest in understanding the problem enough to prevent abusers from getting to the point that they transgress. It is exactly like the politicians who refuse to work to solve problems because they want to campaign on them, they think that bashing their opponents with the problem is more useful than solving the problem.

In this case the desire is to push the liberal agenda, in sexual transgressions the desire is to drive the political power of the feminists and to fund their victim minders industry.

Me, I want to solve problems.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2015 11:51 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote:



It's not hate, just showing the inconsistency of religious claims. I would do the same for claims of astrology and aliens visiting the earth. So just because I object to their claims, I am suppose to not say anything? So if you have a point to be made well if it's religious in nature, you can't say it.. There is no end of religious people spouting out their nonsense and putting forth their discrimination. But I'm somehow in the wrong for pointing out the lack of consistency. Funny..


So then your point is "NEWSFLASH, HUMANS ARE IRRATIONAL".

While I am thrilled that you have figured this out lets not gratuitously pick on Christians MKay? It is gauche. Unless it really is A-OK to bash Christians now, which seems to be the case.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2015 11:54 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Don't ask me about the legal naming of 'flags' in South Carolina.
But I didnt . I asked you which state or country does it represent . I have already said legislature will pump out garbage if allowed to . My original post said it might be a fanion which is a lesser degree than a flag and has stipulated rules on it being flown lower than a flag . Army Corps for example, have fanions . Their country has a flag .
Ionus
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2015 11:56 pm
@hawkeye10,
You will never be popular if you try to discuss something where people are so afraid of what they might do under some circumstances that it is better to spit contempt and run away in fear . What they are really running from is themselves .
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 12:05 am
@Ionus,
Yep, which is why you hear me using "living in fantasyland" and "willful ignorance" interchangeably. Very few people here or anywhere else can tolerate the truth about the world outside themselves because to know these truths would destroy the myths that they cling to about themselves. We used to be better at this when we were more spiritual, a fact that will I am sure cause the brain of Krumple to go "TILT".
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 01:06 am
@Krumple,
Perhaps the God who created us is not the god currently managing the world.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 01:32 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:
My original post said it might be a fanion which is a lesser degree than a flag and has stipulated rules on it being flown lower than a flag . Army Corps for example, have fanions . Their country has a flag .
Internationally, flags are only regulated by the Convention of the Sea. All the other laws are on national basis, like in Australia by the Flags Act 1953 . The use in armed forces is regulated differently in the respective manuals, e. g the Australia’s Commanders’ Guide, Australia’s Defence Force Manual, Australia’s LOAC Manual .
CoastalRat
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 06:35 am
As a Charleston area resident (not that that fact gives what I have to say any special weight) I would like to add my thoughts here.

1. It does not really matter why this man did what he did. The fact is simply that he took 9 lives. That is what our community is focused on today. There will be plenty of time to digest the why of it later.

2. At the time of many of the comments being made by officials, it was not clear what may have motivated the killings. Gov. Haley may not have been aware of anything the man said during the killings when she made her statement quoted earlier in this thread. Calling her names for what she said is childish and reprehensible. I have little regard any longer for the individual who posted what he did in some vain attempt to turn this into a political statement. (Had Haley been a democrat, I seriously doubt this comment would have been made. I admit I could be mistaken, but that is my belief.)

3. And now to the crux of the matter. This is a crime of hatred. Because hatred is the underlying issue of racism. And there will always be hatred. You cannot stamp it out. There will always be racists. Be they white, black, god-fearing or atheists, they will be around. They will spout their hatred wherever they can. All that the majority of us can do is to denounce it when it rears its ugly head.

4. There are millions of people living in SC. The fact that a confederate battle flag is allowed to fly in our state has no bearing whatsoever with the killings in my city. Hatred has not borders. This could have happened anywhere else that some individual decided to give sway to the hatred in is heart. But hey, if y'all want to make this sound like that flag somehow makes all us Carolinians racist hate mongers, have at it. Just don't tell the people of Charleston, black and white, who are supporting each other through prayer and other means that we all hate each other. We've no time for that. Too busy loving on those who have lost family members in this senseless shooting.

The man who did this will face justice. Yes, the motivation behind his action seems to be hatred. A hatred manifested toward those whose skin tone is different than his. But hatred is the underlying issue. And hatred will always be with us. And as such, there will always be more senseless killings.

End of my rant. My thoughts and prayers go out to my brothers and sisters in Christ at the Emanuel AME church. And that is the focus of most of Charleston today.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 10:06 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Internationally, flags are only regulated by the Convention of the Sea.
Not so...http://www.un.org/depts/dhl/maplib/docs/stsgb132.pdf

The point I was making was you cant just claim anything is a flag . The rebel "flag" is no such thing . It is probably best called a fanion .
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 10:08 am
@CoastalRat,
CoastalRat - I didn't realize this was in your neighborhood. I am so sorry. I think it does give special weight - I know after the Marathon bombings - another hate crime being in my neighborhood it hit me very hard - when it is your neighborhood it hits you even harder. Not to mention you would understand the cultural and dynamics of your area.

Your post makes 100% sense. It doesn't make this hatred crime any greater or less because it is hate of skin color - any hate crime is terrible and senseless because you are attacking a particular group with no sensible reason.

My prayers also go out to those directly impacted but also to you and your fellow Carolinians to have to deal with these types of ignorant rants.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 10:11 am
@CoastalRat,
Quote:
The man who did this will face justice.
He will face retribution not justice. Justice would hang (figuratively) him for transgression, for the taking of lives, not for what ever "bad" thoughts we imagine he had when he did it. And it will be our imagination, because we cant know. Hate crime laws are a violation of our rights to our own mind.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  4  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 10:18 am
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 10:30 am
Michael Moore

My Twitter posts on the Charleston terrorist (‪#‎WISIS‬) act and assassination:
South Carolina, where the terrorist rebellion by racist traitors - also known as the Civil War - began in Charleston on April 12, 1861.
The terrorist Confederate flag still flies proudly @ the SouthCarolina State Capitol. Somebody needs 2 tear that flag down now. Today. TODAY
News media, stop your BS and start reporting what this is: An ASSASSINATION of a State Senator and an act of TERRORISM.
One proud White American, in less than 2 minutes, has killed TWICE as many Americans as ISIS has in 2 years. White Terrorists. #WISIS.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 10:37 am
@Linkat,
The Boston Marathon bombing was not a hate crime. It was an act of religiously motivated political terrorism.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 10:52 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

The Boston Marathon bombing was not a hate crime. It was an act of religiously motivated political terrorism.

Dead peoples lives matter equally, what ever fucked up reason people use to motivate themselves to take other peoples lives should not matter except in some cases as a defense "ya I killed them, but this is why I did it, and a jury of my peers will not convict me for the act".

Thinking thoughts should never be a criminal act, only bad acts should be a criminal act if we are to run a just justice system.

Quote:
By telling authorities his aim, Roof admitted he attacked unarmed civilians for political purposes in an act of terror.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/us/charleston-church-shooting-main/

Exactly, this guy is claiming to be a terrorist, and there is absolutely no reason to doubt the story. But you know what? It does not matter, the only thing that matters is that he took 9 lives without cause. That is what a just justice system would prosecute, that is the only thing a just justice system would prosecute. Ringing him up for hating is a violation of his rights, of my rights, and is about retribution not justice.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 11:06 am
@InfraBlue,
It is still based on hate - hate for what America stands for. Hating a particular group.

At least the Crime Museum considers these hate crimes.
A hate crime is another crime (like murder or arson) but with the added element of “bias.”

In which religious bias is the third highest hate crime.

http://www.crimemuseum.org/terrorism-and-hate-crimes-exhibit
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 11:10 am
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:

It is still based on hate - hate for what America stands for. Hating a particular group.


when "he hates black people" gets more play in the media than " he killed 9 people" we should take it as a clue that we are fucked in the head.
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2015 11:24 am
@edgarblythe,
Michael Moore? Seriously?

The confederate flag flies at the site (on capital grounds) of a civil war memorial. Regardless of whether one agrees with it being there or not, the flag did not cause these killings. Mr. Roof did not one day stroll by the grounds of the memorial, happy and content being a loving, peaceful non-racist white man, look up at the flag and say to himself, damn, I gotta go kill me some black folks cause of that there flag.

So idiots like Moore and others who want to dredge up old issues to explain what happened need to shut the hell up and leave us alone. Maybe take a cue from the son of the one victim who has been prominently seen forgiving his mother's killer. Or maybe a cue from the many citizens of Charleston, white and black, loving on each other and condemning this act as an act of pure hatred against all of us, white and black. But no, doing that won't get you on the news.

 

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