When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

@maporsche,

Quote maporsche:

Quote:

I have a problem with anyone who looks at laws passed 25 years ago through the 20/20 vision of hindsight and uses that to attack people today.

In 1992 Bill Clinton used the best information that he had at the time to make the best decision he had at the time. He had the support of the American people, the congress, and many black leaders nationwide.

Murders went down, without a doubt. The cities are the safest they've been in 50 years. There are black-incarceration problems and I trust Hillary to deal with them a lot better than any republican would.

Thank you. It is good to realize that in this overheated political environment, that there are people like yourself who understand priorities in life. We are all well aware that the hate-Clinton crowd was willing to sacrifice reason and judgment in their efforts to get people to hate Clinton. Up to now, I was not aware that they were willing to abandon the very lives of 18,000 innocent black people in that effort.

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@McGentrix,

It's impossible to know how many were non-violent, but no I don't think things like mandatory minimum drug sentences and three-strikes laws are the way to go. I have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight to see why and how those laws have hurt the black population.

The Clinton's, in the wake of some of the worst inner-city violence the country had seen since Al Capone, did NOT have the ability to foresee the future and ALL the possible ramifications of some of the laws.

It's important to add that many of these very laws are done at the state level and have NOTHING to do the crime bill that the Clinton's implemented. It's also important to remember that we've known about these problems for at least the last 10-15 years and no one has really been willing to step up and fix the problem.

But regardless of what happened in the past, when I ask myself who I trust more to help fix the problem, Trump/Cruz/Rubio or Hillary Clinton, I trust Clinton.

Who do you trust?

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@Blickers,

I don't know how much of that law contributed to "saving 18,000 lives", but I can try to imagine the problem that existed back then (I was only 12 when Clinton was elected) and I can absolutely see harsher sentencing and more funding for police as being something worth trying.

Again, the people were demanding it, the congress supported it, the police were asking for it, and black leaders (those most connected to the violence) were in support as well.

Also, many many states adopted the same or worse regulations than this crime bill outlined. You can't blame all of the 250,000 incarcerated prisoners on the Clinton bill (also, it should be mentioned, that those who committed the crimes deserve *most* of the blame).

Here's Bill Clinton reflecting mid-2015 on the legislation he signed in 1994.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/15/politics/bill-clinton-1994-crime-bill/

Now I think the much bigger issue is why black people get treated much harsher than white people do for the same crimes. THAT is an issue that has nothing to do with what Clinton said in 1994, and one that I trust her to address much more than the group on the republican ticket.

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@engineer,

engineer wrote:

Lash wrote:

Looks like somebody needs to be fitted for a big orange jumpsuit.

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about mishandling of secret material. Inadvertent release of secret material is typically handled via a slap on the wrist. Here, there is no evidence at all that anything was even released. Even intentional release is usually handled with a reprimand if it wasn't for nefarious reasons. Petraeus pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of mishandling classified materials and got a fine and that probably wouldn't have happened if there hadn't been a tawdry affair involved. The idea that Clinton would be charged with a felony because she used a legal private server (like officials before her) to handle mail is absurd.

What's more, Petraeus knowingly gave extremely sensitive information to his mistress, e.g. top secret code words, identities of covert agents, war strategies, etc., and lied to the FBI about it. The FBI wanted to charge him with three felonies: conspiracy, violation of the Espionage Act and lying to the FBI, but for all that he perpetrated, they negotiated a misdemeanor charge of mishandling classified information.

Indeed, a slap on the wrist, if even that, is the most that Clinton will receive for her email fiasco.

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@Blickers,

"Saved black lives"?! How many of those prisoners do you think would be so grateful to hear you opinion? I doubt a single one.

Lock up an entire generation of black men so you can show a graph of how a couple hundred fewer were murdered. Lock em up to keep em safe, right? Like animals in a zoo for your amusement.

******* pathetic that you think this way.

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@McGentrix,

Not saying there isn't a black incarceration problem (indeed, I'm restating this for probably the third time), but these people DID in fact commit crimes to end up there. Save us the "...lock 'em up to keep 'em safe. Like animals in a zoo..." bullshit.

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@McGentrix,

Okay, so you're on record as saying that over 18,000 innocent black lives saved from senseless murder is trivial and not to be considered when you harp on the higher black incarceration rate. Are you happy now? Your view is appalling.

PS: That 20% drop in black murder victims was from start to finish in Clinton's eight years. What really happened under Clinton was that the number of black murder victims fell and fell year by year until by Clinton's last year it was down 37% from his first year. Then Bush II took over, and the fall in black murder victims stopped.

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@maporsche,

Let me repeat this, because it's important. More blacks are incarcerated then whites for the same crime. We're talking about non-violent crimes.

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@snood,

She said the Clinton Three Strikes incarcerated blacks should consider themselves lucky. Murder rates among blacks dropped because they were locked up. I don't think it's funny to snort about ruined lives due to race and Clinton's attempt to get Reagan Democrats back with his Tough on Blacks policies.

It's ******* deplorable, and I got pissed. I'm still pissed, and I won't change my view of Blickers.

btw you do the SAME THING you accused me of doing. I'm not voting for Hillary. You are. And??

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@Lash,

Who said that blacks incarcerated under the Three Strike rule should be happy? I merely pointed out that all the while you have been pointing your finger at the rise in black incarceration, we must also take into account that black murder victims dropped from over 11,000 a year to 7,000 a year and that is damned important. The total for Clinton's two terms is over 18,000 black lives saved.

Neither you nor the sources you quote seem to have gotten around to mentioning that in your many posts on the subject these past few weeks.

Let the readers decide who is the pathetic one here.

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@engineer,

I'm not sure you're following the story.

What people have been wondering all along is WHY she took such steps to cover her tracks.

It appears that smoking guns on several fronts (mixing her job as Secretary and private fundraiser; actual events around Benghazi; arms decisions linked to "Foundation fund raising" etc) are being found.

It's not so much the act of hiding your emails - it's WHY you hid your emails.

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@cicerone imposter,

Yes, thank you, CI. Drug-related crimes - but not ALL drugs; drugs that blacks are more widely-known to use.

They were ******* framed and piped into the system.

On purpose. Because Clintons considered them expendable for their political purposes.

.

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@Lash,

Still no mention of the carnage on the streets that Clinton's presidency put into reverse, Lash? Remember those times? Know what little technique that went on in many housing projects among the drug gangs? Shooting through the front door with semiautomatic weapons. See, in apartments the living room and TV is in the room you first step into when you walk through the door. Unless the person you are after is in the bedroom or kitchen, (unlikely), chances are they were in that room. So when a gang went after somebody, they didn't even expose themselves to sight, they just walked up outside the door when they knew the guy was home and just pumped lead through the closed front door. Then they left without even bothering to open the door.

In addition to the guy they were after getting killed, any women or babies in the room, (and these are mostly young people), got killed along with them. Urban newspapers had pictures of young infants very frequently who met their end in this way. Under Bill Clinton, these tragedies declined 37% by the time he left office. Under his predecessor, they went UP. Under his successor they remained level.

This is one reason why many blacks support the Clintons. A reason that you think counts for nothing. Not even 18,000 of them, the number of black lives saved under Bill Clinton's two terms. Because when it comes to flogging your political aims, black lives don't matter. To you.

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@Lash,

Wow. You really aren't aware of the laws or the consequences of those laws, are you?

Drug crimes are not included in the Federal 3 strikes law. The 3rd strike requires a violent crime.

The laws caused an increase in white prisoners as well as blacks.
More blacks are incarcerated under state laws and in state prisons than are in Federal prisons, a lot more. In fact of the black persons in prison, 92% of them are in state prisons. The current percentage of blacks in state prisons is 48%. The current percentage in federal prisons is 37%. In 1990, the percentage of blacks in the federal prison population was 28%.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/csfcf05.pdf
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/Csfcf95.pdf
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/csfcf90.pdf

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@parados,

Thanks for sharing those stats. I think most of us have the wrong impressions about the prison populations.
Good to see that Asians make up the least percentage of prisoners. However, it doesn't explain what percentage of the total Asian population that represents.

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@Blickers,

Blickers wrote:

Still no mention of the carnage on the streets that Clinton's presidency put into reverse, Lash? Remember those times? Know what little technique that went on in many housing projects among the drug gangs? Shooting through the front door with semiautomatic weapons. See, in apartments the living room and TV is in the room you first step into when you walk through the door. Unless the person you are after is in the bedroom or kitchen, (unlikely), chances are they were in that room. So when a gang went after somebody, they didn't even expose themselves to sight, they just walked up outside the door when they knew the guy was home and just pumped lead through the closed front door. Then they left without even bothering to open the door.

In addition to the guy they were after getting killed, any women or babies in the room, (and these are mostly young people), got killed along with them. Urban newspapers had pictures of young infants very frequently who met their end in this way. Under Bill Clinton, these tragedies declined 37% by the time he left office. Under his predecessor, they went UP. Under his successor they remained level.

This is one reason why many blacks support the Clintons. A reason that you think counts for nothing. Not even 18,000 of them, the number of black lives saved under Bill Clinton's two terms.

Not all on the Left these days (regardless of skin color) are as supportive of these Clinton-era laws. I hear a fair bit of Leftist whining now about how these laws are supposedly racist. And just recently Hillary was excoriated for referring to these killers as "super predators".

But you are correct in your assessment. The Clintons were trying to save black lives.

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@Blickers,

http://www.salon.com/2015/04/13/the_clinton_dynastys_horrific_legacy_how_tough_on_crime_politics_built_the_worlds_largest_prison/

Everybody has numbers and a narrative. Here's mine.

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@Lash,

Hillary receives money from Wall Street. She claims she'll be tough on Wall Street. I have a bridge to sell in Montana. Anyone wanna buy?

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@cicerone imposter,

Yeah, which is EXACTLY what I said here:

http://able2know.org/topic/275175-229#post-6137918

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@Lash,

Lash, responding to Engineer, wrote:

I'm not sure you're following the story.

What people have been wondering all along is WHY she took such steps to cover her tracks.

It appears that smoking guns on several fronts (mixing her job as Secretary and private fundraiser; actual events around Benghazi; arms decisions linked to "Foundation fund raising" etc) are being found.

It's not so much the act of hiding your emails - it's WHY you hid your emails.

The news article you linked wasn't about that at all. It referred only to the FBI investigation into the security of Clinton's email server.

Can you provide links to your assertions about Clinton's email revealing smoking guns about mixing her job as Secretary of State and private fundraiser, events around Benghazi, arms decisions linked to "Foundation fundraising," etc.?

1 Reply

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

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