80
   

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

 
 
Lash
 
  0  
Thu 3 Mar, 2016 01:18 am
@Blickers,
Don't you get tired of singing that one, wrong tune to every statement about the Clintons?

You're incorrect. They've raised billions for their "foundation" with $350,000. "Speeches" in exchange for relaxed regulations that screw over average Americans. They blew the floodgates open to funnel young blacks into the new American plantation system - the prison for profit system - while their crooked Wall Street cronies ruin lives and become millionaires.

They've worked hard to **** up our country and they became Rich doing it. **** them and their brainless apologists.
Blickers
 
  1  
Thu 3 Mar, 2016 01:32 am
@Lash,
Prison system, crime bills, black oppression? Here's something for you to consider. Take a look at the number of black murder victims by year. Stats from the FBI.
1987...... 8,998
1988...... 9,956
1989......10,566
1990......11,487
1991......12,227
1992......11,777
Bill Clinton Takes Office
1993.....12,433
1994.....11,854
1995.....10,442
1996......9,473
1997......8,841
1998......7,933
1999......7,139
2000.....7,425

Under Bill Clinton, there were 75,540 blacks murdered in eight years. At the rate of black homicide victims during Bush's last year, 94,216 blacks would be murdered during this time. Bill Clinton becoming president saved the lives of over 18,000 blacks.

So basically, you don't have squat to complain about with Clinton in regards crime and blacks. Unless having 18,000 black people walking around alive who would be dead if the black homicide victim rate didn't fall drastically during Clinton's term strikes you as trivial.
Lash
 
  -1  
Thu 3 Mar, 2016 01:36 am
Looks like somebody needs to be fitted for a big orange jumpsuit.

Investigators move to the next phase finally. I thought she might bribe her way out of this too.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/02/politics/hillary-clinton-email-server-justice-department/index.html
Lash
 
  0  
Thu 3 Mar, 2016 01:39 am
@Blickers,
Congratulations. That was the stupidest thing ever said on A2K.
Blickers
 
  2  
Thu 3 Mar, 2016 01:40 am
@Lash,
Yeah, Lash, just forget the fact that I hit your little charge against Bill Clinton and blacks and crime right out of the park. You just forgot about your own point and went on to the next one which you have on your little list.

Over 18,000 black people were alive at the end of Bill Clinton's 8 years who would be dead if black people continued to be murdered at the rate they were before Bill Clinton took office. And you just ignored it, like it is a matter of no significance.

Typical.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  4  
Thu 3 Mar, 2016 06:44 am
@Lash,
Quote:
**** them and their brainless apologists.


This has been the most offensive , hardest to live with part of your "support" for Bernie - your derision and insulting of Hillary supporters. I defy you to show where anyone on A2K at anytime is this nasty or derisive toward Bernie or his supporters. You take millions of people whose conscious, thoughtful process of choice is just as valid as anyone elses' and dismiss them all as stupid, gullible and brainwashed. And this is a debate about two candidates who both agree that all Democrats need to pull together in the Fall. I guess you see your right to trash anyone or anything related to Hillary as more important than that.
McGentrix
 
  -3  
Thu 3 Mar, 2016 07:45 am
@Blickers,
In Light Of His Record How Can Black America Love President Clinton?

Snippets from link posted Tuesday, February 20, 2001...
Quote:
For almost a year we have been editorializing that we do not believe that Black America is better off today than it was eight years ago. We have challenged the incessant argument that the Black unemployment rate is the lowest ever by countering that if the increased number of incarcerated Blacks were factored into unemployment calculations the Black unemployment rate would approach 10% and not the 7% so boldly paraded by members of the Democratic party. Now, a report has been released that should give every Black who has embraced Bill Clinton as their champion, reason to pause.
...
in our opinion, the two issues that President Clinton should be held most accountable for are the real effects of his welfare reform initiative and the real effects of his criminal justice policies. In both areas the Democrats were allowed to come into the Black community and speak as if their efforts on both of these issues were good for Black America, offering dubious "evidence" to support their claims.
...
And on criminal justice issues, President Clinton was recently in rare form, writing an op-ed for the New York Times explaining the evils in the disparities in sentencing for crack cocaine and powder cocaine, which unjustly contribute to more Black and Latino men and women in jail. The only problem with what President Clinton wrote was its timing.

As William Raspberry wrote in yesterday's Washington Post, Clinton had 6 years after signing the crime bill in which to deal with this issue. And he did not lift a finger to help Black Caucus members or interest groups who were concerned about the problem.

And as the Justice Policy Institute report and The Sentencing Project figures indicate, Black incarceration rate skyrocketed under the Clinton administration.

The JPI report reveals that 225,000 more Blacks were incarcerated under Clinton than under President Reagan - the Republican President most disliked in Black America.
...
It is hard to imagine President Clinton receiving a full embrace from a community that has been devastated, more than others, by the increased incarceration of its residents primarily for non-violent offenses.

Having lived in Harlem and having family and friends who still live there now, I can assure you that in discussions among Blacks, President Clinton's decision to move to Harlem is viewed as nothing but hype. The people in Harlem don't believe that President Clinton is their hero or has improved their lives.
...
It was a Democratic President and not a Republican who signed welfare reform, the crime bill and who proposed "mending" affirmative action, not a Republican. It was a Democratic President who allowed environmental racism to grow under his watch, not a Republican. It was a Democratic President who did nothing, legally, to address racial profiling and police brutality, not a Republican. It was a Democratic President who reappointed a Republican Federal Reserve Chairman not once but twice, after that Federal Reserve Chairman adhered to economic policies that ensure that a disproportionate number of Blacks will remain unemployed; and which ensured that Black farmers and African economies would be wrecked by a monetary deflation…not a Republican .

What Reagan and Bush may have only talked about, Clinton did.

It is not hard to see why many Blacks believe that the idea that President Clinton is the "first Black President", whether promoted in jest or not, is an absolute insult.

We believe that the record has already shown and will continue to show that President Clinton's actions have done more harm to Black America than good, and that his policies, over the last 8 years, have been significantly more damaging to Blacks than has Republican Party rhetoric, over the last 20 years.

engineer
 
  2  
Thu 3 Mar, 2016 08:19 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

Looks like somebody needs to be fitted for a big orange jumpsuit.

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about mishandling of secret material. Inadvertent release of secret material is typically handled via a slap on the wrist. Here, there is no evidence at all that anything was even released. Even intentional release is usually handled with a reprimand if it wasn't for nefarious reasons. Petraeus pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of mishandling classified materials and got a fine and that probably wouldn't have happened if there hadn't been a tawdry affair involved. The idea that Clinton would be charged with a felony because she used a legal private server (like officials before her) to handle mail is absurd.
revelette2
 
  3  
Thu 3 Mar, 2016 08:37 am
Here's Why Bernie Sanders Doesn't Say Much About Welfare Reform
Quote:

Clio Chang and Samuel Adler-Bell want to know why Bernie Sanders hasn't spent more time blasting the Clinton-era welfare reform law and proposing concrete ways to address poverty:


While Sanders frequently repeats and laments the statistic that one in five American children live in poverty, neither he nor Clinton has put forward a specific plan to address it. And neither spends much time talking about food stamps, housing subsidies, or the Earned Income Tax Credit, all essential programs for the poor.

Liberal pundits have criticized Clinton for defending her husband’s welfare legislation—and for parroting the conservative caricature of welfare beneficiaries as "deadbeats"—but so far, it hasn’t created any serious problems for her campaign. But this, perhaps, is to be expected from a more moderate Democrat. The oversight is arguably a more glaring problem for Sanders, who voted against the welfare bill and harshly condemned it in his 1997 book, but hasn’t made it an issue in the primary. In August, he told Bloomberg, with uncharacteristic restraint, "I think that history will suggest that that legislation has not worked terribly well."


One reason for this restraint may be simple: perhaps Sanders believes that the best approach to poverty is to enact his broad economic revolution. Once that's done, poverty will start to decrease.

But there's another possible reason: maybe welfare reform has turned out not to be an especially big deal. After all, by 1996 the old AFDC program accounted for only about $20 billion in spending, a tiny fraction of the total welfare budget—and the difference in spending between AFDC and the TANF program that took its place is even more minuscule. The truth is that it's barely noticeable compared to increases in social welfare spending during the 90s from changes to CHIP, EITC, the minimum wage, and so forth.

On that score, it's worth taking a look at social welfare spending more broadly. But what's the best way? We spend just shy of a trillion dollars a year on social welfare and safety net programs, but that number bounces up and down when the economy goes into recession and more people need help. That tells us more about the economic cycle than it does about anti-poverty programs. Instead, we need to look at spending per person in poverty. This gives us a better idea of how policy has responded to poverty over the past few decades. So here it is:


http://www.motherjones.com/files/blog_welfare_spending.jpg
Quote:

I chose 150 percent of the poverty level as my metric, but the truth is that it doesn't matter much. This chart looks pretty much the same whether you show total spending, per capita spending, or spending per family below the poverty level. If you remove Medicaid from the mix, the spending increase isn't as steep but otherwise looks little different.

There are two obvious takeaways from this. First, overall spending on social welfare programs has increased by 3x since 1980. That's pretty substantial. Second, if the 1996 welfare reform act had any effect on this steady rise in spending, you'd need a chart the size of my house to make it out. Perhaps Bernie Sanders knows this, and understands that in the great scheme of things, welfare reform just isn't worth fighting over anymore.


I really know next nothing about charts and how gauge all data in the charts, just left it up there for others to look at if they want.

My children have both received help with child care, education and housing and utilities and health care. I know poverty has gone up but I am not so sure it is related to the welfare reform and I don't see how those things mentioned above are bad things.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  4  
Thu 3 Mar, 2016 08:47 am
@Lash,
OMG... the Clintons raised money for a foundation that helps the poor all around the world. No wonder we need to hang them from the nearest tree.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/06/where-does-clinton-foundation-money-go/
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  4  
Thu 3 Mar, 2016 08:51 am
@engineer,
Patreaus also was recorded telling his mistress that the material he gave her was classified so to be careful with it. That met the standard of "knowingly" giving someone classified information and he still only got a misdemeanor. Without Patreaus being recorded they probably wouldn't have been able to charge him because the law requires intent and it is difficult to prove without a quid pro quo or an admission.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  3  
Thu 3 Mar, 2016 09:45 am
@McGentrix,
Thanks for your link, McGentrix, but the trouble is, I have a hard time taking seriously anybody who wants to talk about black incarceration who doesn't take into account the fact that the over 11,000 black people were being murdered per year before Bill Clinton took office, and under Bill Clinton that amount declined and declined until only about 7,000 black people were being murdered per year by his last term. And then W. Bush took office and that number abruptly stopped declining. Check the FBI numbers for black victims of homicide:
Bush I in office
1987...... 8,998
1988...... 9,956
1989......10,566
1990......11,487
1991......12,227
1992......11,777
Bill Clinton Takes Office
1993.....12,433
1994.....11,854
1995.....10,442
1996......9,473
1997......8,841
1998......7,933
1999......7,139
2000.....7,425

At the rate of black homicide victims during Bush I's last year, 94,216 blacks would be murdered for the next eight years. Under Bill Clinton, there were only 75,540 blacks murdered in those eight years. Bill Clinton becoming president saved the lives of over 18,000 blacks during his eight year term. And the drop in homicides abruptly stopped when Bush II became president.

Love these "analyses" of crime, incarceration and the black community that neglect to mention how many fewer blacks were murdered when Bill Clinton was president. I guess to rabid anti-Clinton people, black lives do not matter.
Below viewing threshold (view)
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Thu 3 Mar, 2016 11:58 am
@wojo,
There's always two sides to every story. Thanks for sharing your's. What was telling was your statement,
Quote:
Secondly, remember Clinton backed laws that put more blacks in jail. Cops can't kill people in jail.

The other fact is that cops killed more whites than blacks. I don't think that trend changed before or after Clinton.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  5  
Thu 3 Mar, 2016 12:29 pm
@Blickers,
I have a problem with anyone who looks at laws passed 25 years ago through the 20/20 vision of hindsight and uses that to attack people today.

In 1992 Bill Clinton used the best information that he had at the time to make the best decision he had at the time. He had the support of the American people, the congress, and many black leaders nationwide.

Murders went down, without a doubt. The cities are the safest they've been in 50 years. There are black-incarceration problems and I trust Hillary to deal with them a lot better than any republican would.
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Thu 3 Mar, 2016 12:29 pm
@Blickers,
Maybe it's because they were all in prison for petty non-violent drug offenses and couldn't kill each other? Who know. But, What does the murder victim number have to do with the increasing population of black's in prison at the same time?

It's like some one said "What a lovely orange color this orange has." and respond with "Yeah, but the tree has green leaves!" It's non-sequitur to the conversation.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Thu 3 Mar, 2016 12:31 pm
@maporsche,
Hillary will definitely deal with black incarceration much better than any republican. Trump as president? He's a bigot and xenophobe. It tells us much about the state of this country that he has so many supporters.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  4  
Thu 3 Mar, 2016 12:33 pm
@McGentrix,
An anti-crime bill, which was needed at the time to curb gang-violence and murder, should be evaluated on how effective it was a reducing violence and murder.
McGentrix
 
  1  
Thu 3 Mar, 2016 01:19 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

An anti-crime bill, which was needed at the time to curb gang-violence and murder, should be evaluated on how effective it was a reducing violence and murder.


So, locking up 250,000 non-violent black people lowered the murder rate by 20%? That's cool with you? Doesn't seem that effective when you look at the numbers.
Blickers
 
  4  
Thu 3 Mar, 2016 01:28 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote McGentrix:
Quote:
Maybe it's because they were all in prison for petty non-violent drug offenses and couldn't kill each other? Who know.

Well that's a rather flippant dismissal of a huge saving of life. The anti-Clinton crowd is so eager to point fingers at black incarceration, but is simply not interested in the number of lives, (over 18,000), this incarceration was part of saving.

Nothing is ever perfect, and certainly there are aspects of black incarceration that need to be amended, but for you to just take a huge amounts of saved black lives like that and call it immaterial is truly dismaying.
 

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